MELISSA CLARKE: But first, the Resources Minister, Madeleine King, joins me. Thanks very much for being in the studio today.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Pleasure to be here, Mel.

MELISSA CLARKE: It's obviously good news on a global level that this peace deal has reached. This must be something that the Cabinet has been very pleased to see progress on.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, absolutely, and clearly it must be, you know, a truly welcome relief for the people of Israel and indeed the whole Middle East. You know, my thoughts are with the families of the hostages, and I saw the reports that some may be released on Monday and I'm sure Monday can't come soon enough after what has been a horrific two years. And as the Shadow Attorney General said, you know, think of all those that have lost members of their family and friends over what has been a really terrible time in the Middle East.

MELISSA CLARKE: We'll wait with hope --

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Indeed.

MELISSA CLARKE: -- over the next 48, 72 hours. But let's, let's look at your resources portfolio. There's certainly been a lot of things connected to your portfolio in the news this week. I want to start with the BlueScope Steel CEO Mark Vassella, who gave a very powerful address to the Press Club this week, and he was very clear that he wants to see a gas reserve on the East Coast. Will the government deliver one?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, I listened to Mark's speech, and I've read it since then, and I thought it was, I thought also it was a very good speech, and I've got to say I agree with nearly all of it. It's well thought out, and I thank him for his contribution to the debate, and I thank BlueScope for investing the time and effort and making a really good submission into the Gas Market Review. A reservation has been discussed in our discussion papers around this Gas Market Review. So, everybody knows that something is totally on the table. We are wanting to design this with everybody involved. So, that comes from, of course, the gas industry itself, but really importantly, the consumers of gas in this country, and that's industrial users, energy companies, day-to-day users as well. And so, it's really important to get that, that widespread view. But of course, we also do have important international customers as well that have invested into these projects to enable gas to flow for Australian uses, but also for theirs, of course, as well. So, we're actively looking into it.

MELISSA CLARKE: I note that you gave a speech a couple of days ago addressing some of the companies and countries that have invested in our resources sector, and you said the government wouldn't do anything that would harm investment or alter existing contracts. Does that mean, when we're looking at the possibility of an East Coast Gas Reserve, that it would only be forward-looking, it wouldn't affect existing contracts?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Absolutely. And that was one of the principles in the Gas Market Review that myself and Chris Bowen are running at the moment. One of those principles is that we would not jeopardise future investment, or indeed the past investment or those really important long-term contracts for our trading partners.

MELISSA CLARKE: What about extensions of existing contracts? Because there's a lot of concern about Santos’ contracts with KOGAS and whether or not extending that contract might see a continuation of limited supply for domestic use.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, another thing I said in my speech recently is that we will not jeopardise regional energy security. How we go about the design of a new gas market system in the East, well, it'll have to apply to the whole country, but the concentration is certainly on the East Coast. It has to take that into account, and we've got to work through that. So, I'm not going to --

MELISSA CLARKE: So that's not quite as much of a red line as the red line you’ve put on --

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Oh no, energy security for our partners and their investment, respecting their investment is really important. But the thing is, we can do both. We've just got to do it better. And what has happened is, over the past 15 years, policy has developed in an ad hoc fashion in relation to crisis. And this is the opportunity to bring a lot of thoughts together, a lot of thinking going on in a lot of places to make it a better process, a more efficient process. But really importantly, and this is a high priority of government, is making sure that there is enough gas or more than enough gas and affordable gas for industry users in Australia and also for consumers.

MELISSA CLARKE: One of your colleagues, Ed Husic, told us yesterday that there should be a 'use it or lose it provision' for people that we sell or countries or companies that we sell gas to, so that countries aren't on-selling gas at quite high prices that, or sorry, the other way around, that they're reselling at lower prices than Australian buyers can get. Is that kind of provision something you would consider?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, like Ed, I, I want the same thing. I want there to be more than enough gas for Australians to have in industry and in households at an affordable price. So, that's what we're working toward. How we get to that is how - what we're working through now. I think it's, it's really important that people understand the dynamics of our gas industry. And the thing is, and people often talk about our exports to Japan, it's very important to them and to us. Ninety-five per cent of the gas that Japan buys from Australia comes from the northwestern coast of Australia. So, that's Northern Territory, WA. That part of the country is not connected to the East Coast. So, those reports of on-selling those, that export market does not affect the supply into the East Coast.

MELISSA CLARKE: It's separate at the moment, but there's applications underway to build import terminals here in the East Coast. So, it's not going to be a completely disconnected market in the future, is it?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the thing about import terminals is that they're also a very expensive way of getting gas because you have to one, imagine it, transport it from Dampier in the West Coast all the way around the country after having frozen the gas, turned it into LNG and brought it into here.

MELISSA CLARKE: But do you still understand that as a principle many Australians would be frustrated at the idea that even if the gas comes from Western Australia and we don't have pipelines that come over east, there's still something quite grating about knowing that a resource from our country can be used much more cheaply overseas than it can be used in our own country.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Oh, well, I don't agree that that is correct. It is not necessarily used any cheaper at all. And what the purchases of Australian gas, and that's done under long-term contract and investment, and remembering that Western Australia does have a domestic gas reservation. So, so there is adequate, more than adequate supplies. And you know, the gas has to go somewhere if it is going to be produced. The buyers take it, they use what they can, and the thing that is really sometimes hard to understand for us as Australians, that have an abundance of choices around energy that our friends in Japan don't. So they rely entirely on imports. So, they do have a surplus, they do order a surplus because that's their backstop. Our backstop is maybe wind power, oh it’s not our backstop, we're driving toward wind power.

MELISSA CLARKE: Yeah.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Gas is our, gas is our backstop in fact. So, what, what we need to do is, you know, make sure their supply is flexible and acknowledge, I think, the important role they play also along with Australia in making sure there is regional energy security. And that's what makes our region stable, and that's really important to Australia. It's in our national interest.

MELISSA CLARKE: I just want to ask one more thing about Mark Vassella’s speech from, from BlueScope Steel. He was a bit critical of the gigajoule cap, the price cap that has been put in place. He's saying it needs to be lower, that it was meant to be a cap, a ceiling, but it's effectively become the floor. Is that something you would look at adjusting now or are you going to wait until the Gas Market Review has been completed?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: To be honest, we are looking at all of this at once in a methodical way. So, the Gas Market Code of Conduct with the price cap, the heads of agreement, the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism, the reporting requirements, the reports we see that are sometimes, you know, different --

MELISSA CLARKE: It’s not something you’ll tinker with now, you wait till you've --

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: No, we're going to do it in a fulsome way because we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the past, where there's just, you know, ad hoc policy that's always a response to crisis. And I admit, and we've done it, we had to do it to bring that cap in, to change the dynamics of our market system. But, but into the future we want to make it more fulsome, more thoughtful, and to be honest, long-lasting and stable. And that's good for investors, it's good for Australian consumers.

MELISSA CLARKE: And just finally, your colleague Murray Watt, the Environment Minister has flagged he'll soon be bringing in legislation to reform the environment laws, the EPBC Act. Looks like the Coalition may or may not be the partner to do that. Maybe the Greens. We saw a lot of campaigning in WA, including in your own seat --

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Indeed.

MELISSA CLARKE: -- Against the last time. Are you expecting the Minerals Council to campaign against you again as you try to reform environment laws?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: The Minerals Council and many other groups are very much on board with the need to reform our environmental laws. As - I know everyone says this, but it's true, they don't --

MELISSA CLARKE: But were they constructive last time around? When you [indistinct] --

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, I think, you know, Minister Watt is taking a different approach, and it's a different parliament too. So, that does change possibilities for the minister, and the laws we want to pass through the parliament. What we need is laws that are better for the environment, are better for the community and better for industry. We need it to be more efficient; we need more investment. We need it for the sake of renewable energy as well as our existing traditional energy. So, I'm really confident that there's been a lot of really constructive discussion around what these laws are going to be, and I'm confident we'll get them through the parliament.

MELISSA CLARKE: All right, well, we'll see in the later half of this year how that progresses.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Indeed.

MELISSA CLARKE: Madeleine King, thanks very much for being with me.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thanks, Mel. Good to see you.