KIERAN GILBERT: Welcome back to the program. Joining me now in the studio is the Resources Minister, Madeleine King. Minister, thanks for your time. The Japanese PM here, 50 years since the basic treaty was signed. Before we get into the detail, as you reflect on it, it’s quite an extraordinary evolution in that bilateral relationship, isn’t it, when you think about what it was in World War II to what it is today, probably our most important strategic relationship in this region.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, absolutely, Kieran. And it is that 50 years since the Nara Treaty, and that’s where the Prime Minister Takaichi is from, so it’s a really, I guess, a sweet part of this whole story at this time. And the relationship, it has been transformed, obviously, from time of great and sort of untold conflict and all the pain that comes with that to now this shared prosperity and shared security arrangements in so many ways. It’s something that anyone whose family was around in the late 40s and 50s could never have imagined. So it’s a very positive thing. And I think Japan’s investment a long time ago, too, to rebuild parts of Japan, to be frank, after the war, the rebuild of Tokyo was basically from the iron ore from Newman, from Mount Whaleback, BHP’s mine. And it was a long-term investment from the Japanese many years ago, enabled by the great forethought of some of our state and federal leaders to enable that to happen, combined with the coal from the east coast that makes the iron ore that has rebuilt and, indeed, built the cities of Japan.

KIERAN GILBERT: So a lot of Japanese investment underpinned that. It’s underpinned a lot of the LNG industry as well.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: The traditional commodities, whether that’s coal, the very first commodity Japan really invested in, then iron ore but also, of course, LNG.

KIERAN GILBERT: Have you been able to reassure her that despite the push from some – David Pocock and others, the Greens – that you won’t be slapping a new export tax on LNG?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: We’ve been very consistent right from taking government about our position on our trading relationship with Japan and all aspects of that is that we are trusted and reliable. We won’t be forcing on any surprises. And, you know, we’ve had some changes in the gas market in the past few years in response to the crisis of the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and we had to act. And that was disruptive to that part of the relationship. We’ve been really careful and mindful of how Japan depends on Australia for its energy security. And if a country like Japan, which is one of the real lynchpins of Asia and prosperity in that region, supporting them elevates Australia’s position in the region as well.

KIERAN GILBERT: And on – before we get into the specifics of this detail here, what do you say to the argument that the Japanese will extract more in terms of their tax from our gas than we do?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, I’ve seen some of those reports. I’ve not read the report myself. I find some of the accusations and allegations in some of this reporting a little bit dodgy to say the least and fails to tell the full story. And I’m also not going to comment on Japan’s tax regime. I am well aware of the onselling stories that we hear, and, indeed, Japan does onsell. But they also over purchase as a strategic means of their energy security. Australia is really lucky. We don’t need to worry so much about energy. We have to be very mindful and we’ve got policies to make sure we have enough gas and other energy supplies. But a country like Japan is wholly dependent on imports, like a hundred per cent. So it’s sometimes difficult to imagine that as an Australian – being a hundred per cent reliable on your friends and partners to keep your lights on.

KIERAN GILBERT: But on the critical minerals component, because under this deal today, there’s six key elements to it. You’ve got the economic security agreement and underneath that this energy arrangement that you’ve agreed upon.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yes.

KIERAN GILBERT: Which I guess is reassuring both sides that those supplies will continue?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Indeed.

KIERAN GILBERT: And then the critical minerals element as well, how does that fit in?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the critical minerals element of this is about enhancing our cooperation and information-sharing. It’s the first real solid engagement between Australia and Japan on how we can both work together on the Critical Minerals Strategic Reserve, which this government has now enacted into law. So it’s moving that work along, acknowledging some of the projects that we’re already doing – the Alcoa Sojitz gallium project. That’s a commodity, it’s been banned from export by China so we have to now produce it and we’re doing that with Japan. Investment in the nickel industry in Western Australia and even the Tivan fluorite industry as well. So there’s lots of commodities people maybe haven’t heard of but are really important to having all the things we use in everyday life these days, like phones and so forth but also defence technology. And it all goes into that.

KIERAN GILBERT: The leadership dialogue the government’s announced alongside the Japanese, why is this important? You know, it’s announced today as part of the broader thing on the economy. Is this a people-to-people initiative?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yes.

KIERAN GILBERT: Why is that important? Why do we need it?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: It’s definitely a people-to-people dialogue, as it sounds. And, you know, we’ve seen that with the American-Australian leadership dialogue. It fosters leadership connections. And I think that’s really important. I’ve been as Resources Minister to Japan five times, and that’s my effort to make sure I take part in building those relationships as well, so when moments come, like they have now with the conflict in the Middle East, that we can contact people quickly and easily to get what we need.

KIERAN GILBERT: So to tell them you’re not going to pull the rug on the LNG?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, also, “How can you help us secure our supplies of liquid fuels,” you know. So it goes both ways, these things. So the leadership dialogue was a really important initiative that will enable more of that people-to-people connection at very senior levels.

KIERAN GILBERT: Okay. And finally but before you go and circling back to where we were in terms of this debate about tax on LNG. For our viewers who might be watching and thinking, well, okay, are we getting enough from our own resources, the stuff under our feet, how does the PRRT – that’s offshore gas, we’re talking about, so it’s not under our feet?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: No, no, that’s right.

KIERAN GILBERT: Is that going to crank up in terms of the amount of revenue we will get?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the PRRT is a profits tax, and that’s exactly what it’s designed to do. The PRRT takes account of the fact that to build these LNG refineries and extraction processes has taken over hundreds of billions of dollars. So each project is about 60 billion and there’ll be give or take a few billion. So that’s a lot of money. That capital has to be found. It creates thousands and thousands of jobs over decades. And when those refineries and those exports are making those super profits, the taxes go up, and that’s what really important. But can I say, Kieran, what I really want to emphasise to people watching is my priority is on making sure that there is enough gas for Australians at affordable prices. And that’s why my concentration at the moment is on the domestic gas reservation across the east coast. Because that’s what people need – is affordable gas into their homes to back up their solar, to back up their renewables or as they need it. And the same for the industrial manufacturing.

KIERAN GILBERT: And that’s happening?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, we’re working on that right now. We’ve, as you know, announced at the last election –

KIERAN GILBERT: Is the industry cooperating?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Absolutely. Well, they called for it, indeed.

KIERAN GILBERT: Okay.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: And, you know, we’ll have to talk a bit more about the detail, no doubt about it. But certainly industry is backing it in.

KIERAN GILBERT: Resources Minister, Madeleine King, thank you, as always. Appreciate it.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thank you, Kieran. It’s a pleasure.