HAMISH MACDONALD: We're going to start with this gas reserve story. The Federal Government is promising that the price of gas will come down under its plan to create a domestic natural gas reserve, and of course so much of what we consume does rely somehow, one way or another, on the price of gas. But exactly how long is it going to take for you to see the impact of this; perhaps in your energy bills or the other things that you pay for. Yesterday the Government announced East Coast gas exporters will be required to save 20 per cent of their supplies for the Australian market instead of selling it on the global spot market. 

Madeleine King is the Minister for Resources in the Federal Government. I caught up with her a few minutes ago. Madeleine King, good morning, welcome to 702. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: It's a pleasure to be with you here this morning, Hamish. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: How long will it take for us here in Sydney to feel the impact of this decision? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, we are going to go through a detailed consultation period with industry, but there will be a domestic gas supply obligation on LNG exporters on the East Coast which provide a lot of the gas into New South Wales from 1 July 2027, so that's just over a year away. And that ‑‑ 

HAMISH MACDONALD: But we won't feel that immediately, right, because the existing contracts are long‑term contracts which go well beyond next year? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Contrary to some reports, the imposition of this supply obligation will take effect from 1 July 2027. So we will be building flexibility into the system to make sure that those foundational existing contracts that you mentioned are taken account of and mechanisms built in where they don't have to be broken but each LNG exporter will be given opportunities to make sure that they are able to supply that domestic obligation which we're setting on them from 1 July 2027. So the effects – I mean when I –

HAMISH MACDONALD: Can you explain what – 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: – immediate, it's not tomorrow – 

HAMISH MACDONALD: I hope I'm not being daft, but what does that mean in practice? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, that means in practice that more gas, that would otherwise have been exported, now will be able to come into the domestic supply system. But I would say, however, that gas from Queensland will always cost a bit more than gas that would be produced in New South Wales because of the transport issues, right? And so, I want to, you know, take my hat off to the Minister, Courtney Houssos on her recent announcement of exploration permits. And I know there is work being done around Narrabri, and that has to go through a couple of approvals yet, and I do respect that process. But domestic gas closer to consumers will always be more affordable for those consumers. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: I'm still not sure I understand what you're saying about the shorter‑term implications of this being applied to existing contracts. You're saying there will be an opportunity for the suppliers to supply it domestically, but does that mean they have to – there's an obligation or not? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: That's exactly what I'm saying, there is a domestic supply obligation of 20 per cent of their total LNG export amounts that will apply from 1 July 2027. But we will build flexibility into the system to make sure that's achievable and respects those existing contracts, which are really important for regional energy security. 

But, you know, really at the heart of this is that Australians deserve to have access to affordable gas that is produced in this country, and no one disagrees with that. So we will be building, in consultation with industry, a means to make that happen – and we can do this, and we will do this – that meets those existing contracts whilst also supplying gas to Australians. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: Why does Australia sell so much of our gas to Japan, which is then allowed to sell on that gas at much more expensive prices, sometimes to us? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, I'm not quite sure about that last bit. But I would also point out, as we are in – I'm in Sydney too, today – that the gas that flows from Queensland doesn't go to Japan, so it doesn't affect any supply – well, tiny amounts do – it doesn't affect the supply into the East Coast. The gas or LNG that Australia provides or sells to Japan is mainly out of Western Australia and Darwin. So it's really important to realise that this argument that people are, some people and lobby groups, very well‑funded lobby groups, are pushing around Japan somehow affecting gas prices in the East Coast is wholly incorrect. But to go to the importance of the export industry with Japan. Japan through its company INPEX and other industries as well have put $80 billion into the project in Darwin and off Broome and in Perth, Western Australia, and that's an extraordinary amount of investment to build an industry that secures the energy security of one of our nearest and most important neighbours. So it's of vital importance to both Australia and Japan that that export continues. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: Madeleine King is Resources Minister. Can you explain for listeners why we wouldn't impose an additional tax on our gas exports? It's obviously been a live discussion, the Government's indicated it's not going to do that, we understand that. But why not? Why would this be so damaging to those relationships given, as you say, we can implement this sort of change within existing contracts without, you know, scaring the entire international market and upsetting our allies? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, it's important to understand that there is a taxation system already applied to gas exporters and to gas companies more broadly. There is obviously a corporate tax, income tax paid by employees, and people – and just the general taxation system. But also, of course, the Petroleum Resources Rent Tax which people often refer to. And that doesn't apply to the Queensland LNG that supplies into New South Wales. But what the Queensland LNG exporters pay is royalties to the Queensland Government, and that's of vital importance to that State and to that government, and it's a good revenue stream for that government. The PRRT is designed to enable what has been, quite truthfully, hundreds of billions of dollars of investment into Australia that we would not otherwise have. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: I think everyone understands that – 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: It also – 

HAMISH MACDONALD: – dimension of this. It's more a question about the contemporary setting, right? There is this global demand for these resources, there's an impact for us because of what's happening in the Middle East, some of that is negative, but if there's an upside, why don't the Australian people get something from that upside? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the Australian people do get a lot from that upside. One is the hundreds of billions of dollars of investment, the tens of thousands of jobs over four decades, the supply of domestic gas. So if you didn't have the gas going out from Queensland to international partners, you wouldn't have a domestic supply that backs up the depleted Bass Strait of Victoria, Western Australia wouldn't have a 15 per cent domestic gas reservation because Western Australia's only got 2 million people, it could never support an export industry of the magnitude that sales to Japan and Singapore can. So, you know, it all works together. And the other thing I would add is we have examples of where countries have taken, perhaps imprudent, very quick steps during a crisis around taxation. The UK is a classic example. And we did see international prices for gas rise in extraordinary heights during the first few months of the illegal invasion by Russia of Ukraine. And the UK Government under the Tories I think it was, introduced a windfall tax which has resulted a few years later in there being no further exploration and no further developments of that industry in Britain, which has led to a financial decline for them. Now if that's the example that people, you know, want to look at or could look at, it just, I think, you know, demonstrates exactly what those lobbying for what would be an extraordinary thing to do actually want to achieve, and that is the end of the gas industry in Australia, 'cause that is what that kind of thing has done to the gas industry in the UK. So if we dig a little deeper, I think we understand the motivations behind some of these lobbyists. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: You're listening to Mornings on 702 ABC Radio Sydney. The Minister for Resources in the Federal Government Madeleine King is here this morning. 

I want to ask you as well about these women and children linked to ISIS who have returned to Australia overnight. There are some who criticise the Government for allowing them to come back in, there are others that say this should have happened a long time ago, so I'm going to set that part of the argument to one side for a moment. 

There's a bunch of children who never made any decision to be involved or linked or connected to ISIS in any way who are Australian citizens, who are now back in this country. Will they be given an opportunity to integrate into Australian society? What happens to them? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, there's obviously – I mean it's distressing scenes, we've all seen, you know, some of the airport footage, and Australians, if they weren't aware before, they will be now that the choices that some of these people made that –

HAMISH MACDONALD: Sure. My question is about these children. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, I know, but it's really important for everyone to know and for me to be able to say that adults taking decisions that affect people that don't have that power, that is their children, is one of the more abhorrent things we can see happen, and to put them in such danger. And I think of my friend and colleague Anne Aly said this the other day in an interview and I support it wholly. You know, we don't believe the circumstances of your birth should determine your future. So, these children do deserve another chance, and there's no doubt that will be challenging. We have, you know, expert advice and we'll follow that advice on how best to help these children now that they are in Australia. But there's no doubt that will be a challenging time, but they should be given the opportunity to be, you know, good contributors to our country and not be hindered and shackled by the horrific decisions of their parents. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: Madeleine King, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thanks Hamish, it's a real pleasure, great to be in Sydney. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: That's the Federal Resources Minister, Madeleine King.