DAVID LIPSON: Joining me now for more is Madeleine King, the Federal Minister for Resources. Thanks for being with us, and welcome back to Radio National Breakfast. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Good morning, David, nice to be with you. 

DAVID LIPSON: How serious are these gas shortfalls on the East Coast and when will they start to crunch us? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the ACCC and AEMO regularly do reports and make forecasts around gas supply, and importantly, the Government looks at those reports and takes action to make sure that those forecasts don't eventuate, and that there is always adequate supply, and with the work we've done over the past three years in our first term of government to reform the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism, "the trigger", as it's been called in the past, as well as the Heads of Agreement, which is now a much more regular scheduled interaction with the exporters from the East Coast, we make sure we are very much in touch with how they can supply to that East Coast Gas market. And then we also have the commitments under the Gas Market Code, which has all up, put all those three mechanisms together, developed over 600 petajoules of gas into the East Coast system, which should - which will ensure that there is adequate gas supply for the East Coast. But these forecasts are an important part of knowing what's coming, so we're not caught unawares, and the Government can take action to make sure supplies are more than adequate for the Australian people. 

DAVID LIPSON: Yeah. We've been hearing these sorts of warnings for some years now, and for a long time Labor has at least raised the prospect of a domestic gas quota on large LNG projects. Back in 2016, nine years ago, it was called a "national interest test", but it was basically the same idea. Now the Government's announced a review. Why don't we just get on and do it with this reservation policy? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the truth is the system in the gas market right now has developed over many years and three successive governments, and they've come into being often in reaction to a crisis of supply or price or both. And that's what we saw in 2022 with the gas crisis on the East Coast, whether we had issues with wet coal, which meant the power generators weren't working, which called upon gas and we didn't have enough gas ready to go, we quickly came in to government, then we had the Ukraine being invaded illegally by Russia, which all compounded into this really difficult time for the gas market. 

So the idea of this review is to bring the gas Code of Conduct, which is reaction to that crisis, and review it alongside the ADGSM and the Code of Conduct, and so we look at it all at once, because all three of these products that we use, mechanisms to make the market work better, have been developed in times of crisis, once by the Turnbull Government, reviewed by us, and then the Gas Code of Conduct under Labor. And the time is right, it's a scheduled review, that is true, but a scheduled review that will bring stakeholders together to make sure we get a better outcome and a stronger robust framework for the gas market nationally, because at the moment it works, you know, in an East Coast/West Coast system, how we can work to bring all the levers to bear in a national sense so that we have a coherence across the whole gas market. 

DAVID LIPSON: We've just been through a Federal Election campaign where the Coalition put forward its own East Coast Gas reservation policy. Would you expect the Coalition to back a reservation policy if you decide to go down that path? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, who knows really? We know that the Coalition's gas policy was being amended as the Leader of the Opposition was walking to deliver that announcement at the dispatch box. So we won't be doing that kind of thing, this is a thorough review, which will, you know, seek content and feedback from all parties; consumers, industrial users, producers themselves, and indeed we've released a pretty extensive consultation paper to sort of start that discussion and make sure everyone can have a say on the kind of options available to government. But what the Opposition choose to do, they've opposed everything we've done in relation to the gas market. I would hope, indeed, that they, you know, come to the table on this, but I don't hold out much hope for that. 

DAVID LIPSON: When can we expect the first gas to be diverted to the domestic market as a result of any reservation policy, because this is only for new projects or expansions of projects, so there's nothing imminent coming in through a policy like this, even if you do agree to it? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, as I said before, our existing policy has made sure that that gas is available, so that's the combination of existing policies brings in that extra 600 petajoules, so indeed, that work is already happening. What we're trying to do and we'll endeavour to do, and the industry is very supportive of, is to make that more coherent and how we can make sure we learn from the whole system, reduce duplication in some of the regulation, some of the reporting factors, simply how we can make it work better for consumers, for industrial users and for the gas industry itself, and that drives efficiencies in the system which we expect will help with pricing. But it's really important that the Australian people know, and also the gas industry know that the Australian Government is willing to act when things aren't working out, as we did with the Gas Code of Conduct and price gap in 2022. 

DAVID LIPSON: I want to get your thoughts on hydrogen, green hydrogen, because of this termination of Central Queensland's hydrogen hub, which was a project backed by the Federal Government. Where does this leave Labor's plans for green hydrogen into the future? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, hydrogen, like many new technologies, is always going to be a challenge to get going off the ground and to get it up to scale, but that is no reason to abandon it. We need to pursue new sources of power, renewable sources of power, power with lower emissions that can work, and we know our international partners are investing heavily in hydrogen, and we want to work with them as well to make sure it does work into the future to provide that robustness to energy systems. So while this project, you know, did depend to some large extent on the Queensland Government being involved, and they've changed their mind on that, and that's okay, but that's, you know, roadblocks, well, hiccups on the way is no reason to abandon a technology; it's a bit more about we must keep pursuing these things to make sure we get the best energy mix. And we know there are projects that are still progressing, I know certainly in Western Australia, Woodside are investing a lot in their hydrogen ambitions to make their energy output into, you know, zero emissions, and I think having the existing industry invest in a new hydrogen industry is what's really important. 

DAVID LIPSON: We're seeing Canada and the UK make last‑minute appeals ahead of the July 9 deadline for Donald Trump's so-called Liberation Day tariffs. Now Australia put forward critical minerals as a bargaining chip. What's the latest there, are we winning those discussions? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, well, there's things that we can't change in this world, and one of them is our geology and our geography, and so Australia is very well placed.  And we'll continue working with the United States and other partners that we want to invest in our critical minerals. And what the Australian Government has done over our first term and now in our second term is making sure we're stepping up to take our responsibility on critical minerals globally, and that is about the Government investing in this industry to make sure it can become a robust part of the global supply chain of critical minerals. So that is - we've talked to the US about this before, we'll continue to do that. It is one of the number of reasons Australia is important to the United States. Geography is equally important, as an important place, so we have bases, and, you know, I live around the corner from HMAS Stirling, the largest Naval base in the country, which will be of great importance to the US and the UK through AUKUS. And of course, you know, the critical minerals we mine right across this country go into the defence applications that is a very big part of the AUKUS deal. 

DAVID LIPSON: Madeleine King, you're also Minister for Northern Australia. How do you reflect on recent data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics showing the imprisonment rate in the Northern Territory far exceeds the national average? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: It is one of the more difficult matters to deal with in government when one reflects on that incarceration rate in the NT, but equally around the country of young Indigenous people. And when we see the deaths in custody, you know, I just want to acknowledge the distress it caused so many families and communities in the in the NT, and of course right across the country as well. And I know the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Senator McCarthy is working closely with our new Attorney-General Michelle Rowland to consider a range of options to address that unacceptable situation that we're seeing developing. Equally for those who live in the NT, you know, the communities are living with this incarceration rate, which is, you know, takes away the future of their children, but equally there are people in the community that are, you know, seeing intense property damage, and it's how governments balance these things. And I think pursuing justice reinvestment is going to be really important for our government to work with the Northern Territory to make sure there are these really strong community based diversionary programs for youth in that part of the world, that part of our world, our country. 

DAVID LIPSON: Madeleine King, thanks for your time. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thank you very much, David.