TOM ELLIOTT:

Mr Hunt, good afternoon.

GREG HUNT:

And good afternoon Tom.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Okay, a whole range of things here. First, do you think girls now outperform boys in school?

GREG HUNT:

Look I think the statistics are for the overall student outcomes – so girls are tending to do slightly better in their secondary school outcomes.

And whether that's application, whether that's teaching, whether that's aptitude, I don't know.

But either way I just want to make sure that everybody gets the best go at school.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Why are we so worried about the status of women in society if educationally they're starting to outperform boys?

GREG HUNT:

Well I think that's a very important sign that you're getting those outcomes.

But then I think the other issue is has that translated to sort of as many women on boards, as many women as CEOs, as many women in Parliament for example, as should be there given that potential.

And the answer is at this stage of history not yet. Is it progressing? Absolutely.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Okay, I wrote about this in the Herald Sun last week so I'll ask you that.

If I were a woman – and I'm not, but if I were…

GREG HUNT:

But you make a fine looking one. It's a bit scary but fine looking.

TOM ELLIOTT:

I don't think I'd want to go to Federal Parliament because frankly the hours are terrible, the pay is not as good as what everybody thinks it is.

You have to spend 26 weeks of the year in Canberra, a place where no one who is not a public servant or a politician ever chooses to go.

I can absolutely see why women say, you know, they look at a career in federal politics and just say well that's not for me.

I mean if you want to raise a family for example it's a terrible job what you do.

GREG HUNT:

Look it's a wonderful job and it's a hard job and certainly no complaints.

But the time away from the family – and I can only give you my example – is clearly the hardest part.

Yes there are intellectual challenges and there are people who disagree, but you go into it with wide open eyes.

But as somebody with a seven-year-old and an 11-year-old, it's hard. And my wife Paula has to do much of the parenting.

So I can see for many people, whether they're male or female, that would be a disincentive.

But in a way we're like any fly-in fly-out worker so that's one of the challenges of the job.

But boy, you get the chance to have an impact on the country and individual lives.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Do you think we should have quotas for women in Parliament?

GREG HUNT:

No.

TOM ELLIOTT:

No?

GREG HUNT:

No. I think the Parliament of Australia should be merit based.

But what I think we have to do is work to try to encourage the role of women.

Menzies to his absolute credit set up the Liberal Party to have equal numbers of women vice presidents and male vice presidents, to have women with a central role right from the outset.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Okay now I'd like to ask you now about science because you're the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science.

We had a caller I think his name was Len who described himself as a baby-boomer and a science teacher of some generations or some decades.

He said that whereas overall women might be doing better at school, in science and technology and engineering and mathematics they do worse. Why is that do you think?

GREG HUNT:

So there aren't as many who follow through to the higher degrees. That's a statistical fact.

Now, the question as to why – you could have culture, choices, the lack of a supportive environment.

So how do we deal with it is my issue as the person responsible.

So what we are doing is we're encouraging women into science and maths and related fields of technology and engineering, providing funding to bring them through. I'm addressing a conference on women in entrepreneurship in a week or so.

So what do you do? Clearly they're as capable, and as you see at HSC or VCE you get a slightly better outcome in many circumstances.

But whether it's the history, the culture, the practice, for whatever reason they haven't gone through as much in those areas of science and maths.

So we try to remove some of the barriers and to provide incentives and to provide role models.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Do we want more of them doing science and maths? I know that this week the Higher Education program director at the Grattan Institute think-tank, a man called Andrew Norton, has actually said there aren't that many jobs for people who study science and technology and engineering and it would actually be risky for more women to choose this career path. What do you think?

GREG HUNT:

Yeah look I saw those comments and I think they're a mistake.

The reason why I say that is because firstly people do science or they do arts or they do law to develop a combination of knowledge and skills.

A whole lot of lawyers thank goodness don't work in law. They do lots of other things. Many, many people who do science don't work in science.

But I tell you the hard statistics are that the long term unemployment rate for people who have science degrees and maths degrees is lower than for the general population of those who have other degrees, 3.7 versus 4.1 for those who have these degrees.

TOM ELLIOTT:

So why do so many women – while we're on this subject – why do they choose to do sort of arts degrees?

GREG HUNT:

Look I won't speak for why people make their choices.

I can speak for the policy that we've got which is to try to remove some of the barriers.

And frankly role models are immensely important.

You see that in sport. You see that in so many areas of society and it's the same in terms of celebrating the maths and the sciences.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Well speaking of maths and science tonight we've got – we're in unchartered territory when it comes to the Census.

The ABS wants seven million Australian households, possibly more, to complete the Census online rather than filling out a paper form. How do you think it will go?

GREG HUNT:

Look I think it will be fine…

TOM ELLIOTT

Do you?

GREG HUNT:

Yes…

TOM ELLIOTT:

Do you want to go on the record and say this time tomorrow the Census was all fine?

GREG HUNT:

There'll be individual issues. But one of the things that perhaps isn't widely known or reported and in fact I only found it out very recently, a third of the people did the Census online last time and we've been putting our name on the Census since 1911 so as to prevent against fraud, to prevent against double counting and then to allow a proper assessment.

And I can't think in my lifetime of any issues around the security of the data.

And the fact a third last time did it online and 60 per cent of people said you can actually keep my personal data for 99 years and then release it when I'm long gone and done and dusted.

And so the vast bulk of Australians are not living in some Robert Ludlum conspiracy novel, they know that there hasn't been a problem for as long as any of us can remember around the security of the data.

You've got the defence science team which was actually working on making this the most data system.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Well that's the thing, the ABS said it is rock solid secure, but I read today that the Pentagon was hacked recently.

I mean WikiLeaks shows that some of the world's most secure websites can be hacked. Are we absolutely certain that the ABS is somehow impervious to this?

GREG HUNT:

Well it's as good as it can be. We've got our defence science team which has worked on making sure that it's as secure as our internet banking, as secure as our medical records, as secure as anything can be in the online space.

I guess the test, is five years ago, about one-third of Australians did the online version of the survey and there haven't been any issues around that.

TOM ELLIOTT:

We'll go to calls in a moment, questions for Greg Hunt, the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science, 96900693.

Just before that Mr Hunt what about a number of your colleagues in the Parliament, Nick Xenophon, Sarah Hanson-Young, in the Greens Larissa Waters I believe, are saying that they will not put their name on the census and thereby risk a $180 a day fine.

What do you think of the example they're setting?

GREG HUNT:

The first thing is we are elected as lawmakers, and the whole purpose of being a lawmaker is to say that you believe in the laws…

TOM ELLIOTT:

And not to break the law.

GREG HUNT:

…and not to break the laws. Now the second thing is of course…

TOM ELLIOTT:

Will you have them locked up?

GREG HUNT:

I will never give advice on individual actions against individuals anywhere in the country with regards to the law.

TOM ELLIOTT:

But as an example to everybody else, should they be locked up?

GREG HUNT:

As lawmakers we should be upholding the law and I suspect that five years ago – I'm not aware of any of them having raised issues five years ago when a third of the population did this online.

And am not aware that they're complaining about online banking, medical records, any of the areas. It feels as if Scott Ludlum has been reading too many Robert Ludlum conspiracy novels.

TOM ELLIOTT:

But wouldn't it make your job in the Senate easier if people like Nick Xenophon and Sarah Hanson-Young were locked up for a while, is there an opportunity for you here?

GREG HUNT:

Nice try.

(Ad break)

TOM ELLIOTT:

Greg Hunt's the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science is with me. Andrew good afternoon.

CALLER ANDREW:         

Hi Tom, I get fascinated by politicians that get on and make comments about websites and databases online being secure like banks and let's say medical reports.

We do penetration testing for people who build websites to show them how to close the holes when people are actually hacking into their devices and let me tell you I can give you every bank in Australia that has been hacked and what gets taken but obviously that's data that the banks don't want to get out there.

So to believe in any way, shape or form that this data is safe, people are living in absolutely fairyland.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Greg Hunt, are you living in fairyland?

GREG HUNT:

Look I don't think so, and the reason I'd say that, firstly of course, every paper form which has been filled out for 100 years has had people's names on it, and so their details are actually on a paper form, which I would argue is far less secure than a database.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Well you can't hack a paper form, you have to break into the ABS and steal it.

GREG HUNT:

Well look every one of those have to be collated that's how they actually assess them, there's a form, there's somebody's name, the data's actually being entered.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Okay well if it's so secure, why don't we move to electronic voting then, I mean surely that's got to be the next thing.

GREG HUNT:

Well that's a conversation that people will have over the coming years. In a sense what you see here is a pilot.

But what I would say respectfully to Andrew is there are of course, there are always people who will try to break into any system.

But this has been done to the highest level, the test is that of course the material has been collated for a long while, it's been online for a long while in the past, last time a third of people did their own surveys online, so that's a huge proportion of Australia's households.

And then beyond that has there ever been to the best of my knowledge a significant issue with data security around the census? No.

TOM ELLIOTT:

I suppose when you think about what's in the census, I mean why hack it? I mean you get people's names and addresses and what religion they are and that sort of thing, how many children they have…

Scott, good afternoon.

CALLER SCOTT:

G'day Tom, just very quickly, word on the street, three car accidents Lower Dandenong Road next to Howard Road.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Oh dear that doesn't sound good.

CALLER SCOTT:

Everyone seems okay and emergency services aren't here as yet but everyone's safe.

I just want to congratulate the Minister in regards to his comments about quotas. What I think a lot of media people and some politicians don't get – and thankfully we've got an MP that does – Is quotas don't work because it's actually the public that elect them.

So if the public doesn't want that particular person, no matter gender or whatever, they're still not going to get the quota, period.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Well that's true but I suppose the issue would be, Scott, more…like it's up to the Liberal Party and the Labor Party, they have ways of preselecting candidates and should they alter the preselection rules to put more female candidates in front of those voters in the first place. Greg Hunt?

GREG HUNT:

Look as I set up my position before, I don't think there should be formal quotas.

Do I think we can help encourage women, make sure there's training, make sure there's a welcoming environment?

Absolutely, that's the right way to do it, through encouragement, incentive and role models.

Quotas in this case is not something I support.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Henry go ahead.

CALLER HENRY:

Tom I've been listening all day and the days beyond about the privacy for this census that we're filling in.

Can people take a look at their mobile phones and see what every app is allowing people from god knows where to look at – our phones, our contacts, our pictures – there's no more privacy I don't know why they're complaining about a simple form being sent through the internet, everyone knows what we're doing, there's no need to hide, you've got nothing to hide, don't worry about it.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Well is that true, I mean you at the Government, Mr Hunt, can already see everything that we're doing anyway so why worry about the census?

GREG HUNT:

Well look I did read a very interesting thing today and that is that not even the Prime Minister has access to people's online data from the census, so he…

TOM ELLIOTT:

Does he go on Facebook?

GREG HUNT:

Yeah look I think Malcolm uses virtually every major form of social media and communication, he helped create a lot of them.

TOM ELLIOTT:

He reminds me of the sort of person, does he sit there in meetings fiddling with his phone?

GREG HUNT:

No he doesn't.

TOM ELLIOTT:

No?

GREG HUNT:

No he doesn't. There are no phones in Cabinet.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Really?

GREG HUNT:

So no electronic devices.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Is that because you're not supposed to be leaking things that people are talking about or just because you're supposed to be concentrating on what's going on?

GREG HUNT:

The rule was there before I first arrived but I think it serves its purpose that people do concentrate and then I suppose they're being ultra cautious about security.

TOM ELLIOTT:

How long do these Cabinet meetings go for? I mean does it go for hours and hours and hours?

GREG HUNT:

I could tell you but…

TOM ELLIOTT:

No, no, no but seriously do we say look we're starting at 12 and we finish at 2 or does it just go on as long as anybody wants to talk?

GREG HUNT:

No, no, no they tend to run to a very precise agenda, we ran for three hours today covering a lot of items.

TOM ELLIOTT:

And does the Prime Minister say things like, let's act like a team and do it my way?

GREG HUNT:

Look I won't take you into the Cabinet room – that is one of the points.

But our goal is always to focus on what are the real items that are going to you know, create jobs in the country, make a difference to people's lives, put the national budget in a stronger and stronger position, they're the things that we actually go through.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Do you argue with each other?

GREG HUNT:

Of course there are what you called good natured debates. Sometimes people worry if there's a disagreement between Cabinet ministers.

Cabinet solidarity is not about everybody coming in with a monolithic view, it's about making sure that the Government tries to determine the best outcome and then everybody comes out with an agreed approach.

It's like a footy team, to make sure that everybody is working as that team once they get on to the field and you can try things beforehand but – so the Cabinet room is actually a very healthy debating environment…

TOM ELLIOTT:

Sure.

GREG HUNT:

…where different views will be put, and in the end it's a combination of consensus and Prime Minister as guiding umpire.

TOM ELLIOTT:

And – oh, so he's like the umpire. Okay, so – and when there's a leak from Cabinet, is there like a witch hunt afterwards to find out who did it?

GREG HUNT:

Look, I've been very fortunate. It's not been a significant part of my time in Cabinet.

From time to time things will come out – often it's a journalist speculating, and if somebody is asked about it and they don't say anything, they'll take that as a confirmation. In fact you're just not commenting on the details.

So all up it's a very collegiate environment, genuinely – and (inaudible) talking around the table, but it's - there's an encouragement that you do have actual, real debate.

Because that contest of ideas is what you want in a Westminster system, what you want – this notion of the round table, the Cabinet table to be all about. But then you agree and then you unite.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Very, very quickly, I was told today that the Synchrotron, which is this device that creates black holes or something that was owned by the Victorian Government is now being transferred to Federal Government ownership…

GREG HUNT:

Yes.

TOM ELLIOTT:

…the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation. Is the Synchrotron, has that been a useful thing for us?

GREG HUNT:

Yeah, incredibly valuable. So it's out near Monash University, it's one of the world's leading scientific instruments, it's just about the size of a football field.

It sends electrons around at almost the speed of light and then it uses magnets and mirrors to drive it off at angles where it creates this intense light, a billion times brighter than the sun, almost unbelievable, which…

TOM ELLIOTT:

So you don't look at it?

GREG HUNT:

…operates – no – operates like the most precise and powerful x-ray.

It's helped create cures for diabetes with new forms of insulin. It's helped deal with different forms of rice, so as like you can enrich the zinc and iron content to create rice for kids with malnutrition.

TOM ELLIOTT:

So why has the Victorian Government given it to you?

GREG HUNT:

Look, the Commonwealth is taking it over. We're putting $520 million, you know, half a billion dollars into it.

And it's going to be one of the world's great science platforms over the coming decade where you'll have potential cures for different types of blood cancer, tumours.

You'll have foods that are unearthed and discovered – ways of improving them, as you've seen with the zinc and the iron for rice to help with malnutrition in developing countries.

So just incredible opportunities. Lockheed Martin just came to Melbourne last week to create its first international research lab because they think Melbourne is one of the great science capitals of the world.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Speaking about unearthing new foods, I took my daughter to the football on Sunday, and she insisted upon eating a pie, and the only one they had left was a thing called a four-and-twenty cheeseburger pie.

Was the Synchrotron involved in unearthing that?

GREG HUNT:

No, I think we need to examine it though.

TOM ELLIOTT:

Greg Hunt, Minister for Innovation, Science and Technology, thank you for joining us.

GREG HUNT:

Thanks very much.