Interview on ABC AM with Melissa Clarke

MELISSA CLARKE, HOST: Tim Ayres is the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science and joins me now. Minister, thanks for speaking to AM this morning.

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: G'day, Mel. It's great to be on AM

HOST: Now when it comes to data centre development, why the shift from having guidelines to this intention to have mandatory regulation?

AYRES: Well, there's been a body of work go on within the Cabinet and that has moved from the National Artificial Intelligence Plan, the Artificial Intelligence Safety Institute established earlier this year, Data Centre Expectations and now the Government moving to lock those into legislation. This has been a steady evolution and a program of work that will deliver data centre investment here, but the Australian way, in the Australian interest.

HOST: Have you taken on board feedback from vocal Labor Party members preparing ahead of the national conference who've really been pushing for stronger guidelines here? Has that been part of the decision to shift to a mandatory approach?

AYRES: Well, we listen to everybody in the community and of course across the caucus, but this set of decisions is consistent with the approach that we've been taking since my appointment. It is an evolution of that approach where we're lifting up an Office of Artificial Intelligence, doing that coordination work across government. Prime Minister taking a central position here, which is a very welcome message, I think, in the Australian community and moving to make the Data Centre Expectations mandatory with a new set of data artificial intelligence standards which will be mandated in legislation.

HOST: This is a fast moving sector. We saw just last month AirTrunk, an Australian data centre company, announced that it would invest $30 billion in India to develop data centres there. Is that the kind of thing that you would consider a lost opportunity and would ideally be done here in Australia instead?

AYRES: It's terrific actually to see an Australian company like AirTrunk extending its operations overseas. That's not at all inconsistent with Australia securing the data centre investment that we need here in Australia. Australia is a terrific place to invest for data centre and artificial intelligence development. It's in our sovereign national interest that key functions like training happen here in Australia. So, they are shaped by Australians consistent with Australia's national interest. That's what this policy is all about, delivering. And it got a pretty good, pretty good reception yesterday. Now, there's lots more work to do.

HOST: The Greens have called for a moratorium on new data centres being built until these standards are being introduced. If these standards are important, that's a reasonable position, isn't it?

AYRES: Well, it's a pretty dopey position that just takes us backwards.

HOST: Well, you're suggesting these standards are important, but they're not in place yet. So, if they're important, why wouldn't we wait for them?

AYRES: Well, we cannot afford to stand still. We cannot afford to stand still as a country. The Data Centre Expectations are being worked through with the States, key tech firms signing memorandums of understanding with the government that are consistent with those we are going to move to make them mandatory. It's very clear to see the direction of travel here. Every large data centre needs to be making a net contribution to the electricity sector, needs to have decent water security and comply with all these other Australian conditions that deliver a better outcome for Australia.

HOST: A lot of Australians have concern beyond the data centre development. Will you expand these standards to encompass a much broader suite of issues involving AI? Things like the impacts on users, the ethics of its use, how it's used in the workplace, how it's used in education. Is the Government looking at having tied to regulation on some of those broader issues on AI?

AYRES: Well, as we set out in the National Artificial Intelligence Plan, Australia's approach is that, is that ministers have responsibility for those questions in their area. So, take the workplace questions. Amanda Rishworth is leading an approach there with the business community, with the ACTU, with civil society, to make sure that we develop an Australian approach. If it's in artificial intelligence safety, those ethical and safety issues that you've raised. Artificial Intelligence Safety Institute will be delivering that approach across government, working with our partners overseas, with the security agencies too, to make sure that artificial intelligence is safely deployed here in Australia. It's in our interest to have all government lifting its capability and making sure that where there is investment, it's happening in the national interest.

HOST: And is there any kind of guarantee of access for Australian AI firms looking for computing power to develop AI? Not necessarily. Large language models. But for attracting that computing power here, is there any guarantee that Australian firms will be able to access it?

AYRES: Well, that's certainly one of the areas that we'll be approaching, not just in the Data Centre Expectations, but in the broader standards. Australia has a very strong advantage here, in particular in those narrower data sets where there is artificial intelligence training and artificial intelligence modelling in areas like agtech or resources or the defence sector. Australia has a real advantage here and is already moving ahead, embodying artificial intelligence in industrial product and manufactured goods and services that we can deploy here in Australia and export around the world.

HOST: Industry, Innovation and Science Minister Tim Ayres, thanks very much for speaking to AM this morning.

AYRES: Thanks, Mel.