Interview on 88.9FM Tamworth with MacCa

MACCA, HOST: Apologies to Senator Tim Ayres joining us this morning. Tim, how you going, mate? 

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE:  I'm alright, good to be back on the show.

HOST: Yeah, good to have you on board and sorry about that. We just couldn't get Mark Rodda to shut up. It's fine, mate. Good to have you, mate. Climate change, how real is it? We're hearing a lot about it at the moment. It's even being asked if it could be explained as the blame, which is, to me just sound silly for this Nepal tragedy.

AYRES: Well, it is an absolutely serious question for the world. It's scientifically established. Like there's a lot of anti-science sort of stuff on social media which has kind of become the bane of our existence – ask any parent out there about how much nonsense there is on social media. It is a serious issue. Governments around the world are grappling with this question. The Australian Government is doing it too and Australia is more exposed than any other country on earth. Our farming sector in particular. So, this is a key issue for governments. It's not an easy issue to tackle and it requires governments cooperating around the world. And that is, as you would imagine, hard work taking action here and making sure Australia captures the advantages too, of the industrial transformations that are on the way.

HOST: You're in our area today and over the next couple of days we'll be talking to the people at Walcha. They've got tens of thousands of people out there on a signature petition in relation to transmission lines which the Government are pushing very heavy for renewables, as we know, particularly in our area but some of this is on prime agricultural land. Will you be addressing the people of Walcha on your visit?

AYRES: Well, I won't be in Walcha this time around. Honestly it'd be good to be spending a few days up in the Northern Tablelands in New England. But I'm in and out. I've gotta see a gold and antimony mine that’s back in production near [Armidale], which is a very good development for Australia, for our mining sector and for our critical minerals production, which is just so vital to the emerging industrial economy around the world. I'm determined to make sure that Australia, with all of our mineral resources that everybody else on earth wishes they had. Our space, our vast land, our continent, our vast solar and wind resources, our storage, our hydropower and gas – we make sure that we're getting Australia into not just mining these products but also processing them here onshore. That's what Future Made in Australia is all about. Now there are – we have to rebuild our electricity system if we're going to make the country stronger and more resilient and drive down the price of electricity. We're very focused on energy as a government. Driving down the cost of electricity, rebuilding an electricity system that was neglected for too long and reserving Australian gas for Australian industry and make energy a source of competitive advantage for Australian manufacturing. We're going to get on with doing that.

HOST: Tim, it hurts as a single father with my kids, 50/50, you know, three to four days a week, depending on the week. To have to try and find the money for the power bill. Eighty three dollars a week it's costing me at the moment. And at times I'm the only one at home by myself to hear government saying, driving down the cost of electricity. Trying, trying, trying, where every time my energy supplier sends me an email to tell me that prices have gone up. When are we going to start driving down the prices rather than just talking about them?

AYRES: Mate, it's so hard. You know, this is tough work. It's tough. It's tough for people getting the bills. Absolutely. But we have had well over a decade before we were elected of no investment in the electricity sector. Takes time to build new capacity. We are building it hand over fist. That is a national effort that is going to determine whether or not in the future we're a competitive economy. We had an experiment with the Liberals and Nationals and One Nation in charge of our electricity system. Nothing got built. Coal fired electricity power stations – people trying really hard in those facilities to keep them going like some of the best engineers, tradespeople working day in, day out. But the source of electricity prices, these older coal fired stations – we have to build new capacity. We're getting on with building new capacity. We're not pitting people in the regions against people in the industrial regions which is what some people in politics want to do. You know, big industrial facilities, big electricity consumers, need low cost power. They need renewables backed by gas. That is the lowest possible cost power for them. We're getting on with building it. Projects have got to stack up, including environmentally. Always new development is a challenge whether it's in regional economies or in the big cities. We're getting on with the job.

HOST: Anthony Albanese, our Prime Minister seems to be a little bit worried about One Nation and putting a fair bit of focus at the moment on trying to squash the party. What are the thoughts? Is the Government a bit scared of the uprising of One Nation, particularly when the polls are suggesting that they're certainly ahead of the pack?

AYRES: Well, we've never been a government that's taken electoral support for granted. Like we worked really hard last term. We won the election, we increased majority. We don't take that for granted. We haven't been yahooing about it. But there is a lot of work to do. Now on one side of politics you got a government that's focused on delivering real change. Some of that's hard work, not kidding people around. And on the other side of politics you've got One Nation and the Liberals and the Nationals. They can't govern without each other, they can't live with each other. But if you vote One Nation, you're really voting for the Liberal party. If you vote for the Liberal party, you're really voting for One Nation. You know there is a kind of clown show going on over there where they're all about cutting wages, they're all about all of the things that the Liberals were always on about. But we've got to just focus on the job at hand. That's what Albo is doing. That's what the whole Cabinet and government is doing. Working hard for Australians, whether they're in the bush or whether they're in the outer suburbs or in the big industrial regions. We've got a big job to do. Reindustrialise the economy – make it stronger, more resilient and make sure Australians are sharing in a good, strong economy that supports everybody.

HOST: Tim, I'll just roll through with you because we haven't spoken for a while just for another couple of minutes, if I may, instead of running the news. Federal funding appears to be pulled from regional projects out here from the Government – our aquatic centre being one where we're short. We did get some funding from Barnaby Joyce when he was in power, the Member for Tamworth. Kevin Anderson got us some on the state level. The council at the moment are struggling to foot the bill with their part of it and are trying to work out exactly what they're going to do as far as planning. But the Dungowan Dam was one that was knocked on the head. It was economically unviable. Are you aware of any money at the moment headed to our region from the Federal Government for some NSW projects here in our region?

AYRES: Well, I take those things in turn MacCa one is, yeah, of course there is increased support for Local Government. Look, it's an important part to think third tier of government in Australia. So, increased funding for Armidale and Tamworth. There is additional roads funding in the regions – $381 million is the figure that sticks in my mind for the Muswellbrook Bypass. Now, that is serious, serious infrastructure money for the regions. Now this Dungowan Dam, I know that part of the world reasonably well. I remember Barnaby Joyce when he was the Deputy Prime Minister, he promised that he was going to deliver one hundred dams. He delivered two. He delivered two. The water security issues in Australian country towns, particularly on the Great Divide and to the west, are very challenging. I know we've spoken about that before too. I think when we spoke in 2018, 2019, 2020, there were tough issues for towns like Guyra that were trucking water. The Dungowan Dam was a bit like Barnaby's other foible – the Snowy 2.0. Figures worked out in the back of an envelope and then it turns out to cost billions and billions and billions of dollars more. Nobody's prepared, that I've met, to seriously talk about that project. But you know, people are either about delivering or being blowhards. The dam was ruled out by the NSW Government on the basis of the massive cost of that dam. That doesn't mean that there aren't still very significant issues on water security for not just rent in country towns, district like the abattoir industry that require large quantities of water.

HOST: Yeah. Quick question from leader of the Nationals. I asked him yesterday, Matt Canavan, if you had a question for Tim Ayres, what would it be? This is what he came up with.

[GRAB]

SENATOR MATT CANAVAN, LEADER OF THE NATIONALS: What's your plan to make sure we don't need to spend $7 billion every few years just to keep manufacturing jobs in this country?

HOST: Fair question.

AYRES: Well, if I can answer it in two parts, take that question seriously. Firstly, we are an unashamedly pro-manufacturing government – if the Liberals and Nationals and One Nation were in charge Tomago Aluminium would have closed 12 months ago. The Glencore copper smelter in Mount Isa, the associated fertiliser facility vital for our agricultural and food security – closed. Port Pirie lead smelter closed. Hobart zinc smelter closed. Like all of these facilities, the list goes on around the country. Whyalla Steel. We have been an interventionist government making sure that we are securing this capability for Australia. And we've got more to do. We've got the biggest pro manufacturing package of any government in Australian history. Now, under the previous government, auto industry closed and went offshore, power stations closed, no replacement. Our oil refineries vital for our fuel security. Four out of the six of them closed when Angus Taylor and Matt Canavan and Barnaby Joyce were all in charge. Their record was tumbleweeds through industrial facilities. Our record is rebuilding and reindustrialising the economy to make the joint stronger. So, we make careful decisions with government money. But we are not afraid to put our shoulder behind the wheel for blue collar capability for Australia. 

Second point is the fundamental question here. Rebuilding our electricity system to make Australia more competitive and reserving Australian gas for Australian industry. Those are two big steps. Liberals and Nationals and One Nation fighting us all the way, trying to make Australia weaker, less strong, undermine our competitiveness, just like they did when they were in government. We are getting on with the job. That is a big, bold step, reserving Australian gas for Australian industry. We are delivering that reform so 20% of our export gas is returned here to support the competitiveness of Australian jobs. It's all about energy, all about backing manufacturing. Not going to apologise for doing it. And we are going to keep getting on with it even though the other side of politics determined to tear it down.

HOST: Skilled work is very important and I'll leave you on this one, Tim, if I can. The fact that the Albanese Government are allowing around 400,000, quote me if these figures are wrong, as far as migrants into the country per year, Barnaby and Pauline looking to bring that down to 130,000. Canavan, somewhere in the middle. What do we need? We need skilled workers, we need seasonal workers, we need fruit pickers, we need cotton chippers out at Wee Waa. We need all of these people. We need doctors and nurses, a lot of them coming from India, Sri Lanka, you know, Asians involved in technology. Like, we've got people from all walks of life, yet we seem to be funding university students in a lot of this mess. I guess you could say as well, the answer's somewhere between the devil and the deep blue sea. Between 130,000 and 400,000 a year. What's your number, Tim?

AYRES: Well, what you don't do with complicated problems is try and deal with them with slogans. We've reduced Net Overseas Migration. We are attending to fixing the structural problems inside the Department of Immigration, where a whole lot of the capacity was outsourced, it wasn't running right, wasn't in the Australian interest. Post the COVID pandemic, we've seen a return of a significant number of travellers to Australia. So, temporary migrants, tourists, Australians returning home – all of these issues require careful attention and delivering a migration program. That's been a source of strength for us Australia, but delivering in a way that is in the national interest. We are doing that hard work. We're not out there with sort of glib slogans or social media posts on these questions. We are doing the hard work. We'll have more to say over the coming weeks and months about the work that is required. I'm acutely aware of the requirement for skilled labour, skilled tradespeople in regional economies. First answer to that has to be initiatives like Free TAFE backing young Australians to do young Australians to get into this work. So, locals, in short, they get access to work. Of course, skilled migration is an important part of that picture and we are determined to run it in the national interest. But you won't catch us with slogans and the policy confusion that's going on the other side. I mean, you know, one of them says one thing, another says the other. They contradict each other all the time. Dan Tehan said on Friday that – poor old Dan – I mean, he said ‘we've got a comprehensive plan on migration’. The following day, Jonno Duniam the spokesperson said, ‘no, no, we don't. We're going to have that next year.’ Barnaby Joyce's one number. Pauline Hanson says another. Poor old David Farley says a different number. It's too complicated for them. They just want the slogans rather than the hard work.

HOST: It's got me stuffed. I can't work it out. There's too many numbers going on for me.

AYRES: Well, it's got to be run carefully in the national interest. Like when you think about, you walk around the main street of Tamworth or any of these country towns and you look at the history and the impact of waves of migration that have made country Australia stronger. You can't imagine build the Snowy scheme without that. You can't imagine the post-war economy without all of that. Now, it's got to be done in the national interest. It's got to be done with regards to the interest of communities and firms to make sure they've got the labour they need. There is, it is a complex picture and I'm sorry, but one side of politics is all about the slogans and the grievance and the anger at the moment. We've got a serious job to do for Australia and we're taking that seriously. We're not beyond criticism, but you can count on us being focused on the detail and trying to do the job right in the national interest.

HOST: Basically you're our parents, you know, you don't have to be our friends as such. The hard decisions have got to be made and somebody's got to make them. 

AYRES: Yeah, but you've got to listen to people too, mate. Like, we're, you know, we're not, we'll never be perfect, but we're batting for Australia. You know, we're determined to be a government of the centre, right, like where the majority of Australians are. We're not attracted to the kind of extremes and the kind of yelling and the shouting and the vitriol. Much of what you see on social media, as I said before –

HOST: It's entertaining. 

AYRES: Well, but that's what it is, right? Like it's there for the clicks, it's there to drive division rather than get people working together. Like, you know, I grew up in a country town up the road from you. Like there was always the blowhards in a country town, always the fellas – almost always fellas – there were big noise all about division, always pointing out somebody else's defects. But it was always the quiet doers who make communities work. Yeah, and we're with the doers. We're not yahooing about stuff. And, you know, I want to be part of a government that's doing that kind of work. And I understand, like, we're in a tough environment. The cost of living, pressures are on people. We've had a series of, you know, big international developments – whether it's the war in the Middle East, the war in Ukraine, you know, event after event after event. And people, of course, they find that unsettling. Of course they do. And so the temperature gets turned up and the social media algorithms drive this kind of wild stuff, and people make claims about things that are just completely untrue. Well, our job is just to disregard all the noise and listen to real people on real issues and deliver real change.

HOST: Senator Tim Ayres, thank you very much. Good luck with your visit to our region. Enjoy. Check out the Skywalk if you're here for any longer than an hour. It was just opened on the weekend and Federal Government funding went into that one, along with state government. One hundred and ninety-eight steps of pure adrenaline for you, Tim.

AYRES: Oh, mate, that sounds fantastic. I've got a couple of hours free this afternoon. I'm going to see one of the engineering facilities. Next time I come up, I want to stick to my head into that Dolly Parton facility, too. That sounds like it's made a real contribution.

HOST: Yeah, do that.

AYRES: There's lots to see. I can't wait to get there. Can't wait to spend, even if it's just 36 hours, up there. I'm really looking forward to it.

HOST: Good on you. Appreciate your time, Tim, and we'll talk to you again more regularly.

AYRES: Thanks MacCa, Catch ya. Bye.