Interview on News24 AM Agenda with Laura Jayes

LAURA JAYES, HOST: I want to get to this NSW planning law issue that the High Court has highlighted to great effect yesterday. This is that they have taken into account when it comes to the approval of the Mount Pleasant coal mine, emissions from our exports. I want to bring in Tim Ayres now. Tim, great to see you. This is a NSW planning law, so before you point that out, I want to point it out first. It considers export emissions in mine approvals. Should that be changed? 

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: Well, how the NSW system deals with this, of course, is a matter for NSW. This is not a feature of the Commonwealth legislation and I'm not an expert in this area, but I don't believe it's a feature of other states regulatory systems either. This is quite a narrow decision that goes to what role did the NSW Planning Authority, how did it discharge its responsibility to evaluate this piece of legislation? The legislation was introduced by the Liberals when they were in government. The planning application was made and assessed when the Liberals were in government in NSW. The NSW system will deal with this. It's not even clear to me that this decision will ultimately have an implication for whether or not this individual mining decision goes ahead. 

HOST: No, but it's the principle and you can understand that taxpayers might be waking up this morning questioning whether they should be responsible for Australian coal burned in India or China. What do you believe? 

AYRES: Well, if I can be really clear about this, it is in Australia's interests to have the strongest possible global action in relation to emissions in a consistent way. And that's what the architecture does and the way that works is that it's Australia's job to manage our own emissions by doing things like modernising our electricity system, dealing with, in a careful and effective way, Australia's industrial emissions. The model that our Government takes is to do that, to lift competitiveness and lower costs in the economy. It's also our responsibility to be a good energy partner with Australia's resources being exported overseas our partner economies, it's their responsibility to manage their own industrial and electricity emissions. That's the way the system works. And it's important that people focus on that – 

HOST: Right, so you don't think we should be responsible for the emissions that China emits from burning our coal? 

AYRES: No, the scope 3 emissions, it's our partner's responsibility – China, Korea, Japan, the United States – wherever we are exporting, whether they're raw primary products or industrial products overseas. It's the responsibility and can only be the responsibility of our partner economies to do that. We are taking steps, Laura, in this energy area to maximise Australia's energy advantage. You know, reserving up to 20 per cent of Australia's gas for industry is crucial – 

HOST: Sorry to interrupt you, Chris Minns is talking about this right now. I want to quickly listen in and come back to you. 

CUTAWAY 

All right, that is Chris Minns. He's basically telling everyone to calm down and he's backing the mining industry. I want to go back to Tim Ayres. No doubt you'd agree with that. But it's still the fact, Tim, that in law the Court and in NSW planning law, they need to take into account the downstream effects of exporting our coal. Is this the cost in, in part of signing up to net zero? If we weren't signed up to net zero, this wouldn't be a problem. 
 
AYRES: No, I don’t think that's right, Laura. I agree with the way that Chris Minns, the NSW Premier, characterised this. I mean, as I understand it, again, I want to be cautious because I don't want to be a commentator on the state legislation. But it requires the Planning Authority to take these issues into account. That's what the court decision was. As Chris has said, 7 days ago, HVO's mine expansion was approved, taking into account the same legislation. I mean, there are more miners employed, more employment in the mining sector – Chris has set this out – in NSW under the Labor Government than there was under the previous Coalition Government. We've invested big time in blue-collar employment in the Hunter Valley with the Tomago intervention. That's 5,000 jobs. So, we in Labor are all about smart ways to build Australian manufacturing and Australian industrial capability. 

HOST: But Tim, you seem to be agreeing with here that it's not reasonable. Emissions from our exports would be our responsibility. You agree with that principle? We've got responsibility elsewhere. You're a federal Senator. You're a Senator for NSW. Will you talk to your colleagues, and can there be perhaps federal legislation you can look at that would make this not a problem? 

AYRES: Well, take that question in 2 parts. It's not a matter for federal law. It's not a matter, of matter for – 

HOST: You can't supersede that at a federal level? 

AYRES: We're engaged all of the time. Of course, we're engaged all of the time with colleagues from NSW and all of the other states. As you can imagine, with my industry portfolio and my role in NSW, I am really focused and the NSW Labor Government really focused on the opportunities for blue-collar jobs and regional industrial investment. We've been delivering on that hand over fist in NSW – Tomago, the mining industry focus on the Hunter and the Illawarra out of Western Sydney. I was at a plant the other day in Tamworth – fantastic engineering employment in NSW country cities. We have a really strong record, a really strong capability in industry and in mining. We're doing everything we can in Australia to build a modern future for that. That does mean lower emissions industry in Australia. We're working tightly with industry on those questions. It sets Australia up for a more competitive future and more blue-collar jobs. 

HOST: Tim, as it is always good to speak. We will speak AI next week because I know you're at the AI Safety Institute today so I appreciate it, we just have run out of time. 

AYRES: Yeah, really important AI Safety Institute work this week. We will see you next week.