SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: Today I am at the Sydney Park Hotel in Newtown, Sydney, to talk about this report from the National Measurement Institute. What it demonstrates is that everybody has got to keep working harder to make sure that Australian consumers get a fair pour at the pub. That means publicans, bar staff, customers, all working together, the National Measurement Institute is going to keep doing its work.

The Albanese Government, what we are committed to doing is to deliver cost-of-living relief here at the pub – a cap on beer excise that means that beer prices for ordinary Australians won’t be going up for two more years. This piece of legislation has passed the House of Representatives, and I’m calling on the Liberals and Nationals and Greens to support this legislation in the Senate so that Australian drinkers get a fair go.

I am worried by the way that the Liberals and Nationals treated this in the House of Representatives. Angus Taylor, Sussan Ley and Ted O’Brien, very sceptical of giving ordinary Australian drinkers a fair go. These people – the Liberals and Nationals – wouldn’t shout if a shark bit them. Happy to take questions.

JOURNALIST: First freeze in 40 years, hey?

AYRES: It’s the first freeze in 40 years for Australian drinkers. It’s a small amount of relief. But it means that beer prices won’t be going up because of excise in the pub. We’re doing this because it’s a good thing for Australians to get together, drink responsibly in pubs and clubs, and it’s good jobs for people like the bar staff behind me. And this time we want Australians to be getting together and sharing their experiences, talking about their differences in a civilised way and doing that in a place like the Sydney Park Hotel is the way to do it.

JOURNALIST: Cracking pub, I will be having a schooner later. Just on, Minister, the perfect pour, right? I don’t want you to get too scientific, don’t crunch these crazy numbers for it, but what constitutes a perfect pour? We’re talking fractions of millilitres here, aren’t we?

AYRES: The boffins at the National Measurement Institute do their work to the millilitre. It’s all about the height of the glass or volume density. I think what Australians want to see is the National Measurement Institute keeping the pressure on, but ordinary bar staff doing their work being looked after, pouring a beer is an art as much as it is a science. And these people behind me know it. I knew it when I was a young barman in the bush in New South Wales. The first beer I poured, the second beer I poured, and the third beer I poured weren’t very good and the punters let me know.

JOURNALIST: But the punters tend to know when they are at the bar what they’re receiving a beer. There’s some pretty amusing stuff out there on social media.

AYRES: This is a pub conversation for time immemorial between punters and bar staff. The main thing I’d say is look after bar staff. They’re mostly young people. They’re people having a crack. They need support, not just from the publicans but from punters as well.

JOURNALIST: The publicans are saying, well, if we’re having trouble getting staff as it is. And so, we’ve got this report today sort of indicating that a third, at least, are not quite getting there.

AYRES: Particularly in the bush, it’s a struggle for publicans getting enough staff and getting staff trained up and getting staff to stick around. It’s a good job for young people, working in a bar. You learn a lot. Go to university, go and do Free TAFE, but also the university of life here at the Sydney Park Hotel teaches these bar staff plenty about how life works.

JOURNALIST: There is, though, that being said, going to be some work being done on compliance.

AYRES: Yeah, so we’re going to do our job as a government supporting the National Measurement Institute, to keep working with the AHA and publicans on lifting compliance. But we’re also going to do our work as a government, putting downward pressure on draught beer prices by freezing beer excise for Australians.

JOURNALIST: And that compliance would include, for example, the measurements – the measurement devices that are being used?

AYRES: There's measurement devices and secret shoppers who come in and order beers. The thing is, a secret shopper has got to be somebody that nobody recognises. So they’d never send me to a Sydney pub because that publican would see me coming.

JOURNALIST: How do these secret shoppers work? Just quickly on them. Are they getting the measuring tape out?

AYRES: Whether it’s in pubs or in fruit and grocery shops where they’re measuring the accuracy of scales or at the supermarket, there is a world of complex work there that the National Measurement Institute does that is not well known by ordinary Australians, but it’s really important to the economy functioning properly and consumers having trust that when they get a beer at the pub or a kilo of tomatoes at the fruit and veg shop that they’re getting what they paid for.

JOURNALIST: How do you select these secret shoppers?

AYRES: Well, it’s not a job left to the minister, that is for sure. We want a functional National Measurement Institute that’s doing its work in an independent way. I’m very happy to say not only do I have no involvement in that, I don’t know the answer to that question. And that’s probably how it should be.

JOURNALIST: Are you putting your hand up for a job, are you? The headline is a third of pubs not nailing the pour. Is the perfect pour going extinct?

AYRES: The perfect pour is as much an art as it is a science. And it’s about what people do with their hands and the technology at the pump. And the beauty of a perfect pour is absolutely a thing to behold.