TRUDY McINTOSH, HOST: Well, earlier, I spoke to the Industry Minister, Tim Ayres. I started by asking him about why the Prime Minister is resisting calls to hold a federal royal commission into the attack. The community is clearly, in Bondi in particular, angry is one word, sad at the extent to what happened more than a week ago now. Explain why there shouldn't be a royal commission?

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: Well, you're right about where Australians are at, particularly in Sydney, but I think all around Australia. People are really hurting. They are really hurting. The intention of this terrorist attack as committed by these two men was to hurt Australians, to kill Jewish Australians, driven by their perverted ideology. But it also had the principle that terrorists try and achieve, which is to instil fear and to divide. And you can see, as I saw it in Bondi during the week. I see it in my conversations in workplaces and in clubs and with my own family. People are really hurting, absolutely. And it's the job of this government, the number one job that we have in front of us today for the foreseeable future, is doing what we have always been determined to do: to bring Australians together, to strengthen the Commonwealth, to make sure that the Australian community is integrated, cohesive and focused on each other and the national interest.

HOST: Isn't part of that, though, then a royal commission would, in some way do that? Jewish community leaders are calling for this to happen. The Opposition's call for this to happen. Even one Labor MP, Mike Freelander is now saying that there should be a royal commission, that this would provide crucial answers that there would need to be in terms of the lead-up to this horrific attack. Why can't that the gesture the Prime Minister provides?

AYRES: Well, we have of course – the Prime Minister said a few days ago – we’ll work very closely with New South Wales and the royal commission that Premier Minns has announced –

HOST: Well, wouldn't a federal one be able to look at the bigger picture questions regarding ASIO and the AFP, whether any balls were dropped in the lead-up?

AYRES: Well, there's going to be nothing different happen at the Commonwealth level. The review led by Dennis Richardson, who is Australia's most eminent security expert, former Ambassador to Washington, former Secretary of the Department of Defence, in charge of ASIO, in charge of DFAT, a fiercely independent Australian, is going to do what will be a short, sharp review because that's what Australia needs to do.

HOST: Could we do both? Could the Dennis Richardson review be a short, sharp review that provides the PM with an assurance that the current settings are right but there is a bigger picture look at what has happened? We've seen this, you know, Robodebt, for example, your government implemented a royal commission there, veteran suicide, are two very worthy things that gave Australia a chance to look at itself and the failings that were there. I don't see why in this case one wouldn't be appropriate.  

AYRES: Well, these are very different circumstances, if I may say. Robodebt was, of course, about a long-term government malfeasance and maladministration, deliberate, that ended up causing enormous harm by the government to a number of Australians. This is Australia's worst onshore terrorist attack.

HOST: Mm.

AYRES: These are very grave circumstances indeed, and this government, including in our deliberations today, will be absolutely focused on delivering what is in Australia's national interest; how do we make sure this kind of terrible thing never happens again; how do we build an approach that pulls Australia together, particularly when we're tested at times like this?

HOST: What did you make yesterday, the Prime Minister attended this one - one week on memorial, was booed by members of the crowd. Do you feel that that was appropriate?

AYRES: Well, I'm not surprised that it happened because people are hurting so much, and I know that the Prime Minister's attitude would be the same. He fronts up as the Prime Minister of Australia not just to communicate  

HOST: Shouldn't he have gone in the interim between the Monday and the Sunday, or is this to try and take the heat out of it that he didn't go to that?

AYRES: Put aside all political judgments about the kind of political decisions that people make. That's not this Prime Minister. He's there not just to communicate to Jewish Australians and the community of Bondi and to Australians generally, but to listen to the views of Australians and to discharge that function of Prime Minister of being there when the country is hurting. He did that yesterday. He did it on the very first day that it was possible to do it. He has been engaged non stop around the clock, as have senior ministers who have got portfolio responsibilities here, on developing and prosecuting the government's approach to dealing with, as I say, the worst onshore terrorism incident in Australian history perpetrated by individuals mobilised by offshore perverted ideologies that have antisemitism and violence at their core.

HOST: Have they been allowed to fester here in Australia since October 7? That's the direct charge that comes from the Jewish community that there was a lack of government willingness or ability to stamp it out?

AYRES: Well, this set of ideologies with these two men have been festering since at least 2019. I'm not privy to the security advice. I wouldn't say so if I was. But, you know, at least on the public record these two men have been engaged by this terrorist ideology since, at the very least, 2019. This is inspired by overseas actors in terms of the way that this ideology has been transmitted to them, and they’ve travelled overseas.

I mean, this is a very grave set of circumstances indeed, and this government is determined, whether it's on the security front or on the broader social cohesion questions, to bring Australians together, particularly when it's hard. Particularly when it's hard. Particularly when Australians are hurting, and particularly, you know, when people are hurting like this. Of course they're angry. Of course, they want to see answers to questions. Of course, they want to know that they're going to be safe and we feel that responsibility very deeply indeed.

HOST: At the same time while we're experiencing the wake of this terror attack, the business of government does go on and for some that does feel jarring. The government had flagged it was going to release the gas review. It has done that today. You've announced that prospective - apply to prospective gas up to 25 per cent having to remain onshore. Explain why it has to be prospective and you can't call back existing contracts?

AYRES: Well, can I first deal with part of your question which is, of course, it's jarring.

HOST: Yeah.

AYRES: We’d of course much rather that circumstances were completely different, and this announcement needed to be made today and as –

HOST: Explain why because it might be [indistinct].

AYRES: Yeah, it's been led by Minister King and Minister Bowen, Madeleine King and Chris Bowen, over the course of the last 12 months. It's a really important piece of work to make sure that Australian gas works for Australians. It is market sensitive and it does require consultation with our trading partners, particularly our North Asian trading partners but other trading partners in the region. That work's begun. It was very important that this announcement was made today to deliver that market certainty because there are implications of the policy that operate from today. It couldn't be left to run over the course of the summer months. 

So that difficult decision to announce it was made today. It is about delivering a framework for the first time. It's a landmark reform. That means Australian gas will work for Australians and, in particular, in the area that I have particular responsibility to work for Australian heavy industry to deliver good blue collar jobs in our outer suburbs and our big industrial regions where gas for a series of these major manufacturers is, for the moment, an irreplaceable heat source or it's a feedstock that's used in the chemical process of manufacturing. This is vital for our industrial present but foundational for securing Australia's future economic security.

HOST: Does it guarantee that prices come down for households in terms of power and for business who - big industry in particular?

AYRES: So, can I work my way through those questions as well because precision is really important here. Gas is important in the electricity system, but you want to use as little gas as possible because it's expensive and it's used as a peaking mechanism. As the electricity system builds, gas will continue to play a really important role. So, it's important for our electricity future. It's also important for heavy industry and these reforms are designed to deliver security of gas supply but ensure that there is sufficient gas in the market in Australia for Australian industry to use so the price is being driven down. That's the purpose of the reform. We'll be –

HOST: And you're confident that will happen?

AYRES: Yeah, we'll be, yeah –

HOST: - prices will go down?

AYRES: And we will do the work over the coming six months with industry now that industry knows the direction of reform to make sure that we deliver every possible bit of advantage for Australian industry here. That will be my focus. That'll be the focus of Chris Bowen and Madeleine King and the whole cabinet. That's what this is for. This is for generational landmark reform. It should have probably happened in 2005.

HOST: When WA put one in?

AYRES: It should have happened in 2010. It should have happened in 2020. It's an Albanese Government that is delivering gas reservation. That means Australian gas working for Australians and working for Australian industry, in particular.

HOST: Industry Minister Tim Ayres, thanks for your time.

AYRES: Thank you.