PAUL CULLIVER, HOST: Now obviously the steel making in this city is far reduced but Molycop still makes some steel-based products, and they are concerned about the dumping of cheaper products from China. Let's find out what the government knows about it and what the government wants to do about it. Tim Ayres is one of your New South Wales Labor Senators and Minister for Industry and Innovation and joins you on the line. 

Minister, good morning to you.

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: G' day Paul. It's good to be on the show.

CULLIVER: What's Molycop told you?

AYRES: Well, Molycop have been engaged directly with the Anti-Dumping Commissioner and it's important that I not speculate about the individual details of this matter because, of course, the Anti-Dumping Commissioner, after engaging with them, may well initiate an investigation, and the process needs to be, you know, proper, right? So, I can say in general I've seen, I've seen the claim that Molycop have made. There is very significant trade volatility at the moment, subsidisation in some markets, non-market trade responses from some economies and that means that there is the risk of dumping for Australian manufacturers. That's why we've toughened up the anti-dumping regime.

CULLIVER: Okay, just to explain why is it not all, you know, sort of fair in trade and competition for China to bring cheaper products to Australia? Why is that not on?

AYRES: Well, there's one school of thought of course, that cheap goods are good in every circumstance. I don't agree with that. I don't think manufacturing workers in Newcastle would agree with that. Nobody's got any argument with fair competition. Australia is an open market, free-trading economy. We rely upon trade with the world to sustain good jobs. One in four Australian jobs is trade-exposed. So, it benefits from trade and trade-exposed jobs have higher wages and better conditions in general than jobs in the rest of the economy. So, we're unambiguously for trade but it has to be based upon the rules and when governments engage in big subsidies behind the border, subsidies when governments and firms dispose of surplus capacity. So, when they establish a whole lot of surplus capacity and dump that into our market or other markets, it creates economic damage to manufacturing capability that would otherwise be viable. That's what anti-dumping is all about. 

The Treasurer and I and the Trade Minister announced a set of reforms to our anti-dumping regime that are very significant, will require legislation but in the meantime I've issued a statement of expectations, a new one that lifts the level of ambition for the Anti-Dumping Commissioner and we've provided more support for the Anti-Dumping Commission to make sure that they've got the capacity to do the compliance work that they need to do to defend Australian manufacturers from unfair competition. This is the most pro-manufacturing government with the biggest package in our history where anti-dumping isn't the only answer. We're obviously engaged more broadly across the economy trying to get behind manufacturing jobs. But it's really important that firms have the confidence that if there's unfair trade practices, they face that the dumping commission, around the broader trade remedies regime, is there to support Australian manufacturing workers and Australian firms.

CULLIVER: Can I ask you about those reforms that you intend to legislate, then? What are they and how do they help Molycop?

AYRES: Well, of course, the issues that have been publicly canvassed about Molycop are issues now, not that they are 2025 issues, not 2026 issues. So, the current process, supported by more funding and more ambition, will engage with Molycop and I look forward to seeing the outcome of that process. We will have to legislate further reforms. We've announced that all of the anti-dumping, all of the trade remedies mechanisms are now going to be consolidated under the Anti-Dumping Commissioner to give the commissioner more authority, more capability, more agility and responsiveness to deal with unfair trade practices. That will require legislation, Paul. So, that will mean, you know, that's not on the fast track to be achieved over the next couple of weeks, but. So, it's a 2026 issue. We're going to make sure we move swiftly on that, but we're going to get it right. Because the one thing we don't want to do is talk about reform and then have reform fall over or not be effective because it's vulnerable to WTO actions or whatever. We want to make sure it's a robust, credible, absolutely pro-trade, but pro fair trade and countries and economies following the rules in order to access the Australian market.

CULLIVER: Tim Ayres is your guest this morning, Minister for Industry and Innovation and New South Wales Labor Senator. I want to ask you about this, there's been a number of smelters and refineries that have received bailouts, they tend to be State and Federal Government funded. We've had, obviously, Port Pirie and Hobart with the lead smelter. We've had Townsville and Mount Isa with their copper, Whyalla Steelworks. A number of these heavy industries getting bailouts from the government in part because of high electricity costs. There's obviously myriad issues at different smelters and refiners, I don't want to get into that. But concerns about the Tomago aluminium smelter, given all of these other bailouts, should Tomago expect they should get something too?

AYRES: Well, nothing's guaranteed here, of course, Paul, this is the point about this. You're right to point to the other smelters and major industrial facilities around the country. We are of course working very closely at the table with New South Wales and the owners of the Tomago facility looking to see what can be achieved there. We have announced packages for a range of other facilities but that's, as you said in your introduction to this question, that has required, you know, a close partnership and between the state and Commonwealth governments and the owner, you know, making their own investments in the future of the facility, 50-50 contribution from the different levels of government, but of course also working our way through the practicalities of the position, this is a very important facility. The aluminium sector in Australia is absolutely important and the jobs in the Hunter Valley are important. That's why I was at the Boyne aluminium facility in Gladstone yesterday, announcing that the government has got the $2 billion aluminium production credits on the fast track, that is during the design process, begun yesterday will be finished by the end of October. So, we're going to keep working these issues through but the outcome of course is far from certain and we are just going to keep playing the role that people would expect us to do, bringing people together at the table, trying to work the issues through in the interests of Australian manufacturing.

CULLIVER: We are fast running out of time. But just to be clear, are there active conversations at the moment with Tomago aluminium smelter about some form of bailout?

AYRES: There have been active discussions with this facility over the course of the last 18 months, 12 months. And since I have been the Minister, of course, I've been directly engaged with all of the players here. But I don't want to project to your listeners that there is any certainty here. We are working the issues through in a careful way, Paul, because it's, you know, these are very important issues, very big facility. There's a series of these aluminium facilities around the country and we're working with the owners of those facilities in the national interest.

CULLIVER: We'll have to leave it there. I appreciate your time. Thank you, Minister.

AYRES: Thanks, Paul.

CULLIVER: Tim Ayres, Minister for Industry and Innovation.