MURRAY JONES, HOST: So an important discussion with the Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science, we’ve got Senator Tim Ayres joins me this morning. It’s been a while. Good morning, Tim. Nice to talk to you this morning. How are you?

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: I’m really good, Murray. Really good to be on the show.

HOST: Great to talk to you. Let’s maybe start by talking about a few things locally. And I was just talking about, you know, obviously that energy independence which, you know, involves the gas systems that we’ve got here in this country. But particularly renewables and when it comes to resources as well. A lot happening particularly in our part of the world. Not far up the road of Cape Flattery with the silica mine, let’s talk about some of these things that are continuing to, I guess, kick goals when it comes to Australia’s independence.

AYRES: Yeah, look, you’re absolutely right – the fuel challenges that Australians are facing, particularly in regional areas where, you know, we have secured the strongest fuel resilience that we’ve had for 15 years under the Albanese Government. That doesn’t mean that that supply is reaching its way in the context of this crisis to every part of Australia evenly. There’s a lot of work to do to secure diesel supply, particularly in country towns for the farming community, particularly in areas of the country where farmers are putting in winter crops or harvesting, for our mining sector, for heavy industry as well as for motorists.

Now, what this underscores, of course, is that we are dependent upon imported crude oil products and refined petroleum products. That underscores the whole issue of energy security. And Future Made in Australia, the biggest pro-manufacturing policy package in Australian history, is about making sure that Australian manufacturing and Australian industry and our economic resilience, our capacity to withstand shocks like this, is built up over time. And, of course, a lot of those issues go to energy security, and the government is very focused on that. Dealing with the challenges in the short term but setting Australia up for the long term as well.

HOST: And certainly just in the last 24 hours I’ve spoken to a few people who are involved or have friends in the mining industry. Just getting diesel to keep mining industries, particularly in remote areas, continuing to tick over has become a real challenge. But, you know, I guess there are still options available to us. And, you know, despite a lot of talk certainly the media at the moment about, you know, the fuel supplies dropping out and some real issues just around the corner, obviously there are issues, but, I mean, we’re not at the precipice just yet, we understand.

AYRES: Well, we have national reserves of fuel. And the government’s taken action to release 20 per cent of that into the market to make its way and to privilege regional industry and regional petrol stations, a commitment from the big companies to supply that fuel through to regional Australia and to appoint a Coordinator-General here to solve practical problems and work with the Queensland State Government in your area to make sure that everything that the two governments can do together is coordinated and effective.

We’ve taken steps, of course, to strengthen the powers of the ACCC to make sure that there are penalties there now – up to $100 million –where there’s behaviour that leads to jacking up prices. You know, monitoring that behaviour. I want to see – I understand prices go up when international crude oil prices go up. When this crisis finishes – and I want it to finish soon – I want to see prices go down at the same rate as they went up. And the ACCC is there to deal with that. But also to make sure that the powers that the ACCC has don’t get in the way of cooperation between our fuel companies to get fuel to farmers, to get fuel to miners, to get fuel to independent petrol stations in country towns.

So, we’re very focused on these issues. As I say, we’re more fuel secure than we’ve been for 15 years, but we’re not complacent about that, Murray, and we are determined to drive practical action to deliver for country people, in particular.

HOST: Look, what’s come up over the last couple of days – and I concede that we do have a certain amount of leverage when it comes to quite a few Asian countries because of our liquified natural gas, our LNG resources – obviously we do have contracts tied up at least possibly to about 2030, some of them expire long term – you know, long-term contracts, which means a lot of that liquified natural gas is going out of the country. But I guess when it comes to a quid pro quo or at least an exchange in relation to natural gas, we do have a bit of leverage there and I guess that’s assisted us, I understand, just in the last couple of days, too.

AYRES: Yeah, it does. We are a reliable partner supplying LNG, including from Queensland, to partners in the region and around the world. But we’ve also moved as a government to reserve Australia’s gas for Australian households and Australian industry. And we’re finalising the design of that now.

I was at an event last night with the mining industry, and the head of the International Energy Agency was the guest speaker. He’s in Australia in the middle of this global fuel set of challenges because he sees Australia as a future energy superpower. Our reserves of gas, our reserves of solar and wind in particular; we have more sun and more wind than any continent on earth. We have our own continent, vast reserves of space. The capacity to use those assets to turn it into Australian manufacturing here onshore, that is our future national energy advantage, and Future Made in Australia is all about capturing that.

The benefits flow to our outer suburbs and industrial areas in those suburbs and our regional industrial economies. That’s why Queensland is so important here. Manufacturing in your area, metal processing, including critical metals processing, in the north-west province, central Queensland. These are all great natural assets that require investment and a focus on what our future competitive advantage is. And it’s our energy advantage that is core to all of that.

HOST: And now of any time is a real time to really exploit these things and make sure we get them in place because, as we were talking about, you know, the supply chain issues, the old concepts of free trade are sadly just falling – you know, falling about around us at the moment. So let’s talk a little bit more about – and we’ve got a couple of projects just to quickly talk about as well, including, you know, the Broken Hill Cobalt Blue Project, which I believe has just had some renewed funding there. Also the Australia-Asia Power Link, the SunCable, and closer to home, too, the Northern Silica Project, so, you know, some good things are actually happening on the ground.

AYRES: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Northern Silica, I awarded Major Project Status some months ago. I award Major Project Status, on the basis of advice from my department, to transformative projects that are seeking development approval. It doesn’t mean that all of these projects move ahead, but it does mean that we’re providing facilitative support. Like, not grants or financial support, but we’re supporting big industrial development projects for the regions to get through all the red tape and all of the processes that they have to engage with at the Commonwealth level.

I was really surprised, Murray, to see this project just the subject of a smash-up hit job from the Liberals and Nationals – from Matt Canavan and Andrew Hastie, criticising this mining and resources and manufacturing project. I think – I tried to understand what their smash-up job was all about. It’s a bit hard to understand. The project, as I understand it, will export silica products, which are important for solar production, currently to partners in China and the European Union and to Japan. I think there’s an enormous opportunity for this project to diversify the range of international partners it’s working with but also be at the base of an Australian solar manufacturing supply chain.

HOST: Sure, sure.

AYRES: Now, I think that what’s happened here is three things have caused these angry Liberals and Nationals to lose it. Number one, they get really angry when anybody mentioned solar panels, even though Australian households are voting with their feet on that question. We’ve got more solar panels. It’s a big addition to our grid. I think number two, anything that is about an Albanese Government’s support for Future Made in Australia drives them crazy. They just can’t bring themselves to look up and see the national interest and act collectively. And third, they’re angry because there’s a few Labor figures who made a contribution to public life before who, as I understand it, are involved with this project. Like, really? Really? It is time for the Liberals and Nationals to see the national interest before they see their own petty ideological anger and their fights amongst themselves and their focus on imported ideology and start to actually focus on the Australian interest.

This job, if it’s delivered, this project – and not all of them are. When you award something Major Project Status, it doesn’t necessarily reach final investment decision, but it’s a start, the beginning of a pipeline. It will deliver 90 permanent blue-collar jobs at Cape Flattery.

HOST: Wow.

AYRES: It will deliver 120 jobs in construction. Why does Matt Canavan hate construction, and hate mining, hate resourcing and manufacturing? It’s just absolutely impossible to understand. The argument that because one of the customers is China, it’s just a very hostile to local manufacturing argument.

HOST: Yeah, sure.

AYRES: It’s got a broad range of customers. It’s time for people to grow up in Canberra amongst the Liberals and Nationals and actually focus on what’s in the national interest here. And this is not just digging up and shipping, it is mining, top-quality mining technology and local processing. And my instinct is, sure, these projects don’t necessarily always get off the ground when you provide Major Project Status, but I’m actually interested in development in Australian industry and Australian mining and Australian resources. I would think that should be the instinct of Australian politicians, to back our industry. And now we’ve got not just the Greens and One Nation opposing Australian mining and resourcing projects but we’ve got the Liberals and Nationals ganging up, too. Like, people ought to get their heads out of the sand and back Australia.

HOST: Yeah, out of the sand all right. And particularly when it comes to the supply for essential materials for domestic manufacturing of solar panels, silicon wafers and high-end electronics. You know, that’s where our future is.

AYRES: Well, that’s what I want to see. I want to see that. You know, I’d like to see more things made in Australia. That’s the Albanese Government’s plan here. It’s true that we’re exporting commodity products around the world. Our iron ore goes to partners in Korea and Japan and China and other countries around the world. I want to see more iron and steel made here in Australia. That’s why we intervened in Whyalla to protect the Australian steel industry. The South Australian Government and the Albanese Government intervening there to protect Australian steel.

But we’ve got plans to process iron ore here in Australia and turn it into iron products. But I do accept that we’re going to have a mining industry that’s exporting around the world. That’s a good thing. I support our mining industry, our mining workers. I don’t know why Matt Canavan can’t. Like, he pretends to be a supporter of the mining industry, but when a project doesn’t suit his ideological preferences, which are sometimes a bit fruity, suddenly he’s opposed to the project itself. That’s just not good enough.

HOST: Great to talk to you this morning. You’ve spoken very powerfully, I guess, about some of those facts moving forward and what we do need to do.