JAMES GLENDAY, HOST: Now, there's plenty going on in the world today and here at home as well. So, let's bring in the Federal Minister for Industry ... Senator Tim Ayres, who joins us from Sydney.

Minister, welcome to the program.

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: G'day, James. Good to be on the show.

GLENDAY: Now, I want to get to your industry portfolio in a moment, but because you're a former leader of the union movement, I just wanted to ask you about this proposal from union leaders. This idea to wind back property benefits for investors. Is winding back negative gearing and capital gains tax in the too hard basket for your government at the moment, or is it something that you're actually going to consider?

AYRES: Well, these are things that we've been clear that we haven't been considering. I mean all ideas are welcome. As we head towards, head towards these roundtables, Australian organisations, trade unions, business organisations, will be developing propositions. Remember, the Treasurer framed this just six weeks ago. The perspective that the government wanted organisations to bring was firstly, proposals that are in the national interest, so make a contribution in productivity terms, secondly revenue neutral. And of course, that means that there's going to be debate. And the Treasurer said, you know, we're not going to be in the business of playing the rule in, rule out game as we want organisations and Australian leaders, business at the table engaging fully. We're not afraid of the debate. But, you know, every proposal that's brought forward to this series of roundtables is not going to be, is not going to be considered and adopted by the government. We'll focus on what's deliverable and what's in the national interest.

GLENDAY: It's interesting though, I mean, housing is an issue for unions, it's an issue for industry as well, because a lot of industries find it hard to get skilled workers, particularly in our capital cities where house prices are so high. And there's a strong argument among economists that our current tax settings, particularly for investment housing, don't encourage productivity because people put their spare money into existing housing, make money from that and there's no real net productivity gain. So, this idea of winding back negative gearing capital gains tax, do you think it's an idea that might catch on in the coming years?

AYRES: I'm yet to be convinced that - the focus here should be on supply. I know that the focus of the Minister is on those supply questions. So, at scale, large volume housing and attending to the issues that prevent development occurring. Now, as a government, we've got a Housing Minister, we're convening the housing Ministers around the states. We've got a very large package on the table of you know, pro housing measures. So, funding housing development at the Commonwealth level in an unprecedented way. 55,000 affordable homes, for example, that have been built by this government, the last government, over the course of a decade, only built a few hundred. So, we've got an ambitious agenda. We want to work with the states; we want to work with business and the trade union movement to lift the productivity and efficiency and scale of that endeavour. Because it's so important for Australians that we get more housing supply out there.

GLENDAY: Yeah, you're going to talk about supply, you're going to talk about cutting red tape. Just one more on this. Is there a political risk that if you - if prices go up, as they're forecast to over the next couple of years, that you're going to go to an election after six years in government and younger Australians, particularly those under 40, are going to go, well, they haven't done enough to get house prices down or at least keep them flat?

AYRES: We're in a massive national endeavour here. Housing prices will rise and fall depending on what's happening in the economy. The big thing we can do, the target that we're focused on, an ambitious target that's been welcomed by the sector; 1.2 million homes - that is all about lifting supply. And much of those homes that will be built will be private homes. So, it's, how do we lift the performance and the effort of the housing sector, the states and local government? This is a shared challenge. So, we've set the target. We're providing the biggest package ever in Australian history, pro housing package. But the challenge is for all of us, the housing sector, trade unions, the states, everybody working together in a big national effort.

GLENDAY: Okay, I'm sure we'll come back to this again and again during this term of government.

AYRES: Sure will.

GLENDAY: I will point out that there's a lot of debate about whether or not that 1.2 million houses target is realistic or it's going to be hit. Treasury doesn't think so. I want to take you, though, to an issue just adjacent to your portfolio, and that is AI. Should big tech companies get access to copyrighted Australian material to train their AI programs?

AYRES: Well, Australian law, copyright law applies now, that's one of the things that's different from Australia to other jurisdictions. There is no ambiguity about this question. Australian law, whether it's the criminal law, civil law, applies now, and we have no plans to make changes in relation to this question. I'm asked often about regulation in relation to artificial intelligence. We are, as a government, focused absolutely on securing the advantage here for Australia. That means investment in digital infrastructure and data centres, diffusion of this technology through Australian workplaces, so that we maximise the productivity advantage and improve the competitiveness of Australia and Australian firms and also making sure that we back our tech sector. This is a big national endeavour. It'll be a centrepiece, of course, of the roundtable that Jim's convened in just a few days. But it's a centrepiece of my work in technology, the technology related parts of my portfolio, to make sure that we deliver this in a way that secures the maximum Australian advantage for workers and for firms.

GLENDAY: Just finally, Minister, to your portfolio directly. You've announced a bailout for metals producer Nyrstar. Why does it need a bailout and is this sort of business sustainable in Australia for the long term?

AYRES: Well, I wouldn't regard it as a bailout, James. It's a big investment in jobs and capability in Hobart and in Port Pirie. It is a shared investment across the Commonwealth and the two states. And I want to thank the South Australian and Tasmanian governments for lifting here and rising to the challenge. It's important for two reasons. Of course, there are around 6,000 jobs that are engaged here in Hobart and Port Pirie, so direct jobs, well over 1,000, about 6,000 indirect jobs. It's absolutely crucial for those regional economies. What it means, though, is that we lift, in terms of our capacity to be able to manufacture not just lead and zinc here but processing critical minerals and turning them into metals. These metals, like antimony, absolutely vital for defence supply chains, for new technology supply chains, for the economies of the future and put Australia in a position where we will be able to manufacture these right here on our shores and make these businesses more viable and more commercial and protect jobs.

GLENDAY: Minister, that's all we've got time for. We do appreciate your time on the show this morning.

AYRES: Thanks, James.