Interview on News 24 First Edition

JAYNIE SEAL, HOST: Some of the biggest tech companies are going to be appearing at a Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence today. For more, joining us live is Industry and Innovation Minister, Tim Ayres. Minister, great to see you. A big day ahead and we know that AI poses an industrial scale threat to Australia. That's according to Anthropic. We've seen hacks, we've seen agents go rogue. This is a huge issue. It's the next industrial revolution. What is on the table today?

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: Well, the purpose of the Select Committee is to make sure that we are sharing across the Parliament, the nature of these challenges and opportunities for Australia. Making sure that we're canvassing broadly across the Parliament, the Government's response, which is a world-leading response. The Albanese Government's approach here, legislating mandatory Artificial Intelligence Standards for large data centres, is absolutely crucial and sits very comfortably alongside our approach. AI Safety Institute, keeping Australians safe. And our approach to investment, making sure that we're securing the right investment here, in the right places, in the national interest and in the interest of Australians. That's our approach. And we're very pleased that the Select Committee is meeting again today to go through those issues, to canvass witnesses from the creative sector, but also some of the tech giants who'll be appearing today.

HOST: I mean if we have a look at how fast it's moving and even some of the big AI tech companies saying that it's moving faster than they expected. So, of course this is a very important meeting, but what are some of the guardrails that really need to be done? Because if you look at the security, you look at the data centres as you've mentioned, also scams. I mean we are racing ahead of this big beast, wouldn't you say? And a lot has to be done immediately?

AYRES: Well, what Australia can't do, is go backwards or turn our back on this big wave of general-purpose technology. That would see Australia just being a cork bobbing on the ocean, while there is significant technological progress overseas, and in fact a battle for technological advantage happening. We would just be a customer for other economies, other countries’ products. So, this approach of the Albanese Government here is about making sure that we're building Australia's artificial intelligence capability, while we're protecting, while we’re providing effective mandatory AI Standards. Making sure that, for example, data centres are in the right places bringing their own renewable electricity, underpinning the development of the grid, delivery on water security. And we've got the Artificial Intelligence Safety Institute engaged with the eight other Artificial Intelligence Safety Institutes around the world, under the bonnet of these frontier models, making sure that Australia's got world-leading capability here. This is about Australian agency and Australian resilience and putting Australia in the box seat to make sure that we're doing this on Australia's terms.

HOST: Okay, so then if we look at energy then for example you mentioned data centres and, and the race and the speed that Australia has to keep up with this AI technology. And as we've mentioned it's moving faster than anyone could expect. So, if we look at COP31 for example, and the Prime Minister is there with his counterparts certainly for the pre-COP summit. Looking at energy, how can your Government justify the recent approval for the biggest coal mine in NSW? But you can't look at having nuclear energy for Australia considering when we look back at COP28 in 2023, countries launched the declaration to triple nuclear energy capacity by 2050. There's about 38 countries that have done that, including the UK, the US, Sweden, there's 38 we can mention there. But I mean even just lifting the ban to export more uranium, if we are so adamant about looking at AI and what your Government is doing right now with COP, and I'm joining the two together with we're running out of time, why wouldn't we be looking at that? And the hypocrisy of what's going on with the coal mine in NSW?

AYRES: Well, a couple of issues cobbled together there, Jaynie. Firstly, Australia will continue to be an exporter of coal to the world’s economies who use coal. That's what we'll do. We will be working hard to achieve mandatory emissions standards in the global COP framework, that meet Australia's requirements. That is, climate change represents a significant threat to not just our lifestyles, but our agriculture, our industry and to our region. It's the right thing to do. But we will continue to export coal from the Hunter Valley and Central Queensland to the world. That's in Australia's interest too. On nuclear, I mean nuclear is not a feasible economic proposition for Australia. You mentioned Sweden. I mean Sweden is a space-constrained – 

HOST: Ok, but there's France, there's the UK, the US –

AYRES: Not very windy, no solar energy ­–

HOST: Yeah but if we look at what your Government ­–

AYRES: Yeah that’s right – but it’s in their competitive advantage. Not in ours 

HOST: Your Government is very focused on lowering emissions. And looking at COP31 and reducing the emissions – the biggest coal mine in NSW has approximately 429 million tonnes of coal to be mined. I know we're exporting it, but if we're looking at climate change and lowering emissions, is that not hypocritical of your Government to be allowing this mine to go ahead? That's what The Greens are saying. That's what other parties are saying?

AYRES: Yeah, well, I generally don't respond to what The Greens say on these questions. It's a completely coherent approach – 

HOST: I think Zali Steggall's over there saying the same thing?

AYRES: Well, it's a completely coherent approach. We are for blue collar jobs and investment in areas like the Hunter Valley.

HOST: But isn't it hypocritical?

AYRES: No, absolutely not. Our partner economies require coal in their industrial processes as they go through their own emissions reductions. I do want Australia to continue to export coal and gas to the world. We are taking steps though in this sector, like our plan to reserve Australian gas for Australian industry. Up to 20 per cent being delivered here onshore in Australia to reduce costs and deliver supply for Australian heavy industry who need low-cost gas for their industrial processes. That's the Albanese Government's bold plan here. The Parliament will have a choice shortly to vote for it or vote against it. We are for Australian gas for Australian industry. And we are going to press hard to deliver for blue collar jobs in the regions. 

HOST: There's so many angles to this energy debate but we've run out of time.